When should I switch to Batril if I don't see improvement with Amoxicillin?

Discussion in 'Health & General Care' started by baquettes, Dec 29, 2018.

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  1. Dec 29, 2018 #1

    baquettes

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    My rat has become sick: he's lethargic, sneezes, and has labored breathing as of yesterday. I've started giving him amoxicillin (250 mg per 7.5 cc, giving him .3 cc every 12 hours), but I read that it doesnt treat mycoplasma.

    How long should I wait for symptoms to get better before putting him on baytril (and should I still keep him on amoxicillin at the same time)?
     
  2. Dec 29, 2018 #2

    SQ

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    you can put him on both
    Please take him to a good vet with the knowledge and experience to treat rats, because he may need more then antibiotics
    Make sure he is well hydrated
    How old is he? How long has he been sick?
    Post a video (post it to youtube and put the link on here)

    The dose is based on his weight so hopefully you know it
    A digital postal scale that weighs accurately to 1 gram, and has a tare function is an important tool to have
    http://ratguide.com/meds/antimicrobial_agents/enrofloxacin_baytril.php
    http://ratguide.com/meds/antimicrobial_agents/amoxicillin.php

    http://ratguide.com/health/lower_respiratory/pneumonia.php
    http://ratguide.com/health/bacteria/mycoplasma_mycoplasmosis.php
    http://ratguide.com/health/cardiovascular/cardiomyopathy.php
    http://ratguide.com/health/cardiovascular/congestive_heart_failure.php

    I hope he is soon feeling better
     
  3. Dec 29, 2018 #3

    baquettes

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    He's a year and a half and had started showing symptoms yesterday.


    Here is a video of his breathing, it's not to point where he's gasping for breath, but you can tell it's not normal. He isn't as energetic as he used to be, but he still eats.
     
  4. Dec 29, 2018 #4

    baquettes

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    He is roughly 686 g
     
  5. Dec 29, 2018 #5

    lilspaz68

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    If you mixed your 250 mg amoxi with 7.5 ml of fluid (giving you 33.33 mg/ml amoxicillin solution) you are underdosing your boy. If he's really 686 g (very large) then his dose should be 0. 62 ml twice a day.

    Honestly I would switch him to baytril now. You can keep him on the amoxicillin if you want but next time you might want to mix it as 250 mg pill and add 5 ml of fluid making it 50 mg/ml. His dose would be a slightly more reasonable 0. 41 ml BID.
     
  6. Dec 29, 2018 #6

    baquettes

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    How did you calculate that?

    I have baytril 10% 25 ml, what would be the proper dosage then?
     
  7. Dec 29, 2018 #7

    SQ

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    I would keep him on both since he became ill so fast it could be a secondary infection and the two meds treat different things.

    Baytril has a range of doses http://ratguide.com/meds/antimicrobial_agents/enrofloxacin_baytril.php
    10% baytril is so caustic to tissue it must be diluted, mixed with other things after being measured out
    It is also very bitter so needs to be sweetened
    for example, after I measure it out into a tiny dish I add a few drops of real organic maple syrup (I used to use strawberry quik) to sweeten it, a few drops of water, and thicken it with a tiny amount of baby cereal - my rats think it is a treat

    EDIT: you measure this amount out with a 1 ml or 0.05 ml syringe, put into a ting dish, etc and then add things to it to dilute it as I suggested


    Does that mean that you have 25 ml of 10% baytril? or is it mixed in some way?
    As mentioned, baytril has a range of doses
    If your baytril is 100 mg/ml
    then at 5 mg/Ib he would need 0.08 mls twice a day
    at 20 mg/kg he would need 0.14 mls twice a day
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2018
  8. Dec 29, 2018 #8

    jorats

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    I too would switch him asap to baytril.
     
  9. Dec 29, 2018 #9

    baquettes

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    I have 25 ml of 10% baytril, sorry, I wrote it in a confusing way

    For the amoxicillin I have been using pudding, but I plan on buying yogurt today to use instead. For the baytril, I've read that strawberry jam works really well, as well as some people putting it in soy infant formula.
     
  10. Dec 29, 2018 #10

    baquettes

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    I've just been informed by a different forum about the dosage:

    "I'd maybe pre-mix 1 ml of Baytril with 3 ml of flavoring (making a total of 4 ml). This will adjust the calculations because the new mixture will now have 100 mg of medicine in 4 ml of liquid, or a concentration of 25 mg/ml. According to the calculator, for a dose of 5 mg/lb (11 mg/kg), you'd want to give your rat .3 ml of this mixture. This would be a better portion size."

    Would this seem accurate?

    I would also just like to note: I understand it's not well to self medicate him, but I'm afraid I don't have any other options. I live in the midwest (AKA a cornfield) where I don't have access to any exotic pets vet. The last time I brought one of my poor ratties to a vet that accepted rats (but by no means was a specialist on them), she prescribed .9 ml of baytril twice a day (I believe it was mixed with a zucchini and sugar mix that made it sweet, but not enough that he would willingly take it. It was also veeery sticky and wouldn't come out of his fur, so it gave him really bad rashes. The skin under his jaw was furless and raw, it was horrible. I really hope it wasn't because the baytril was burning him from being prescribed too much, he was no heavier than my current rat). Sometimes I could get him to take the medication by putting it on a treat, but I could only put very little on it. He got worse very quickly, despite giving the medication twice every day, and passed not even a week later.
     
  11. Dec 29, 2018 #11

    SQ

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    If you premix it then your baytril will only be good for a limited amount of time - like 10 or 14 days (you would need to double check that)
    I certainly hope that you do not do that, because if you do, then you will be throwing most of it out
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2018
  12. Dec 29, 2018 #12

    SQ

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    btw, I would have to travel 2 days to take my rats to see an exotic vet
    Instead my rats see a good vet who likes rats and is willing to learn, and to consult other vets - on line, in person or on the phone
    After over 13 years of treating hundreds of rats (I rescue plus others take rats to him as well),
    he is probably more experienced and knowledgeable then most exotic vets - he has pretty much seen it all

    So find a good vet willing to learn and willing to consult other vets (not easy to do, I know)
    ask for info on here, check ratguide.com tc and go to your vet visits with questions and suggestions
    because your vet will be able to tell if a breathing problem also means the lungs are fulling with fluid etc …. only a vet can tell what is really the problem and prescribe the proper meds and also humanely put rats to sleep when they are suffering …. although no vet is prefect and there is only so much they can do

    So be very proactive, educate yourself, and help your vet to become a good vet for rats
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2018
  13. Dec 29, 2018 #13

    baquettes

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    Thank you for your words, I only want what's best for my rat. I've already reached out to the other vets in my area, and they will not accept rats. There is one other place I am trying to get ahold of, so hopefully they accept rats, as well as are educated about them.

    My rat in the past was diagnosed with pneumonia, so I know what the symptoms look like, and I'm sure Peter has it too. If this vet I'm contacting will take him in, I will discuss with them what I have tried in the past and get their recommendations.
     
  14. Dec 29, 2018 #14

    SQ

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    I hope you are able to find a good vet …. not always easy I know
    I often print out pages from ratguide.com (it is a vet approved site) and take the info with me for the vet to consult
    for example: http://ratguide.com/health/lower_respiratory/pneumonia.php

    there is also a site for vets which my vet sometimes consults

    I hope Peter is soon feeling much better
     
  15. Dec 29, 2018 #15

    baquettes

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    Thank you very much for your help. I really, really appreciate it.
     

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