When a doomed-to-beta wants to be alpha...

[Fidget]

This is my Kelley, what a cute little angel, eh?

But why is she in a forced submission hold?
Cause of this she did immediately before last night (tho I just took the picture now):

Last night she came up to my face in bed and I was talking all sweet to her (not touching her) and she took a good bite of my eyelid, it was dripping blood and it's swelled today.

Little bugger, she's a nipper, doesn't like to be petted, but I never tried to 'cure' her cause it it was ok, she never broke skin and she's so loveable just looking at her.

She's here for life so I didn't see any need to try to modify her behaviour, I just respect her boundaries. Like when I hand out treats she will always always stay stock for about 5 seconds til she deigns to take it when I hold hers out to her. She nips if I pet her (unless I am doing one of the frequent saving-her-from-Erin's-pinning cause she is a little bug with the other girls).
Now I'm wondering if maybe I should teach her trust & respect by making her spend at least 20 minutes a day in my arms or on my shoulder? Maybe she'd be be happier if she got over her wariness & and attitude?
Or I could leave her be, it's not a problem for me, I just wonder if it's giving her problems she doesn't need to have?

What do you think?

 

[ratamataz]

I think that 20 minute handling could be very beneficial. Sammy was so timid that I never saw him and he always ran from me. I picked him up and held him in my lap for a good 40 minutes. He was so scared he fear pooped about 10 times and he was trembling, and I didn't stop stroking and talking softly until he noticably relaxed. After that day, and since then, he now runs to me and sits in my lap and climbes on my shoulder. He knows now that I won't hurt him.
I've tried 20 minute handling sessions with Oliver, Charlie, Patrick and Isaac and it really works, I notice a difference right away and it usually only takes a few sessions, or, in Sammy's case, only one long session.

 

[mamarat]

ouch, Lauren. My Coco would bite my eyelids if she got a chance. Otherwise she was the sweetest rat. It was just something about my eyelids.

 

[jorats]

Bad girl! Very bad girl Kelley.... oooh but you are sooo cute that way!

My Sophie is a taster of skin, she'll nip anywhere and everywhere, I always have to be careful and I never present my face to her cause I know my eyes aren't safe with her.

If you do come up with a good way to "change" her... let me know.

 

[Fidget]

OMG! I vacuumed earlier, but didn't do a small spot in the bedroom by the girls cage so as not to wake them.
As I plugged in the vacuum I saw a kid in the headboard house come onto the bed, then I turned it on and the kid ran into a house in the cage beside the bed, I went and patted her head for a good bit and said "I'm sorry Erin, it's alright, done in a second", I vacuumed, then petted her again til she relaxed her head, then I lifted the house to hold Erin and it was Kelley!!!

So I dunno if last nights holding thing helped or if she was just too scared to play boss, but she didn't nip! So I'm thinking she just needs to know her place so she can be in it and feel less stressed when she has one that is clearly defined.

Thanks Ratamatz, I think I am going to do that with Kelley. I think she is missing out on comfort.
And mamarat there is something about eyelids, I've had a few who will nip my eyelids but nothing else - of course they 'nipped', not full' out bit.
Is Sophie gentle with her nips, Jo? Does she ever cross the line? And yes, you should see Kelley, gah she can melt your heart just looking at her, she's not only cute, she always is holding up a hand in the air, she makes you just want to look after her...

 

[ratamataz]

Aww, good girl Kelly!

 

[LA]

I guess sometimes they try any be boss of their Mommy's and Daddy's (just like regular teenagers) and they have to learn who is boss really. Silly ratties.

That looks owie!!!

 

[Fidget]

I'm 99% sure Kelley came from a breeder take-away by the spca of 21 kids.
Since she's having trouble 'taking' to me (distrust & power-trips) and 'endearing' herself to the 3 other ratties she met here (bugging & challenging) and not learning too quick even tho I & they always treat her gently I'm thinking she mght have lived on her own there without rmuch rattie or human interaction.

I figure she's got some identity issues and confusion about where she fits. Maybe even some emotional stuff...She's not mean or vicious, she never bites (or nips) me when I hold her (when I'm in charge) but she nips when I pat her at a distance (and she's in charge). It seems like she has been controlled , isolated and strictured and she just doesn't know how to react to anything and settles for 'the best defence is a good offence'

Could she have been kept separate from the other ratties and not even given a close 1 to 1 relationship with a human either??

Simone says she's older, she did have bad breathing issues when SARS got her and the vet thinks permanant lung damage. That'll make you old! Physically she acts mid-range, energetic and capable , but all 3 other ratties treated her - (Erin left only now :cry: ) as a bothersome baby and gently but forcefully and frequently pin her. So both warriors Erin & Savanna saw her as a pain in the pratt rather than a real threat, right?
She really is a sweet gentle kid at heart, her mind is messing her up.

I like her just as she is, I never doubted she'd come around if I pushed her, just saw no reason to. But you can get lost between 'Live & let live" and CSNY's 'Teach your children well'.

But now I think she is missing out on a fun, loving, trusting relationship with me, and probably sleeping by herself instead of sleeping with Erin sometimes, and maybe both of them are missing out on having silly fun with poor Erin having to play stick-in-the-mud when she'd love to party and pour off steam! No wonder us old folks get feeling old..

We're working on that old-fangled/new-fangled touch therapy!
With help from Susan who's given some really good tips: (page 9 - 11 http://photos.imageevent.com/littledevi ... letter.pdf
Forward as I am, I'm loathe to be intrusive, so it's not a manic intervention, just a daily go get her and hold her and pet her a while and force her to stay there. I try to pet more than I talk cause you can see how desperately my yakking makes a body want to escape. :gaah:

 

[jorats]

I'm very impressed with that information packet. Very interesting and good to follow with unsocialized rescues. With babies though, that's not how I would socialize them.
I loved seeing all the pictures and the caption explaining all those rats were once on death row because they were labeled a biter. And look at them now!

Keep up the good work and I bet she'll come around.

 

[LA]

WOW what an incredible packet. People just don't understand pets. They take the 'easy' way out.

Thanks for sharing Lauren.