What to do with 2 seperate groups?

The Rat Shack Forum

Help Support The Rat Shack Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Negoonus

Active Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2020
Messages
30
Location
Hamilton
Hi guys,

Last Thursday my neutered male Timbit attacked and killed one or three babies that was being introduced to him instantly before my wife and I could stop him.

I now have a situation where i have to keep Timbit and his cage mate Espresso seperate from the babies in a 2 story CN. Espresso is very curious of them and is very friendly and I'd love for the babies to meet her when they've grown larger.

Is it possible for the 3 to interact but still be in seperate cages and if so can someone advise me on how to do it. I'm in over my head here and this whole accident has been very difficult to handle.

Thanks guys
 
Last edited:
I'm so sorry for your loss, sometimes they move way too fast... You can try introducing Espresso to the babies alone and if that goes well it might make the introductions go easier if you want to try again with Timbit because she's clearly still his friend, just smells like the babies. Another thing you can try is switching items from their cages so everyday he has a new item to inspect and hopefully accept the smell. But if he remains aggressive you will probably be stuck with two separate groups until they pass or you decide to rehome someone.
 
Thank you that reply really helps my wife's and my decision with this while situation. We were originally going to surrender him back to the rescue we got him from. But he really likes it here and I don't want to take him away from somewhere he's comfortable with since he's been through so much.
 
I understand that completely and I have had three different groups at one time, it gets a little harder to clean but eventually you work out a routine and it goes smoothly most of the time after that. Should you decide on retrying the integration you should be very aware that he may strike at any moment, a confined space like a bathtub with enrichment and food(pea fishing is a combo !) may be a good choice as you can sit there and be ready to intervene but the space isn't so small that the babies stand no chance of getting away(like a carrier) just to be safe in this particular situation.
 
I'm too terrified to try until the babies are a good size. Timbit was introduced to 2 rats his size and they put him in place right away so he was chill.

How do you manage out of cage time with groups?

Also, can Espresso be able to interact with the babies at some point out of the cage and put back in her seperate cage?
 
Last edited:
Goodness... that's so heartbreaking, I'm so sorry for your loss - and also for the emotions that come with that, including being unsure what to do with Timbit. They're very very quick and despite their small size, we can't always intervene fast enough.

I've done a lot of rat intros over the years. What I can say is at bare minimum, wait until the babies are closer to his size. While a general rule is that rats are more accommodating to babies/young ones, I've found introducing adult rats/older rats is entirely possible if you're patient in the approach. I introduced 3 seniors (including one who had a history of aggression towards other rats) without any problems whatsoever - sometimes it's just the timing.

All of that said, the reality you're going to have to face right now is that this may never work out. Timbit may never be okay with these babies. Ask yourself if you're okay with this? Can you handle keeping rats in 2 separate colonies? My advice would be to keep Timbit and Espresso together. Even if Espresso is okay with the new ones and interested, Timbit is comfortable with her; she is his companion right now. If Espresso is exceptionally friendly, yes, she can have some free-roam time or even cuddle time on you with the little ones - but they have to go home to separate cages for their safety and to alleviate stress on Timbit.

Keep the cages in the same room but out of reach of grabby rat fingers so nobody is pulling each other from other cages. This can get them accustomed to one another's smells and sounds for the next while as the babies grow.

Do all out time in a designated neutral space (bathrooms work great), and separately (baby group at the same time, then put them away and take out the adults or vice versa). Right now I have 6 rats + 3 we're boarding for someone while they're on vaca, and usually I take them out 2-3 at a time to sit with me while I watch TV or dust or make coffee. That's still socializing with 'em.

If / when you decide to retry intros (again, really advise you wait until they're bigger), neutral space + gently clean them each with unscented baby shampoo right before, or dab some vanilla extract at the bases of their tails. This mutes some of their natural oils, though not all of them, and encourages them to sniff each other. The vanilla approach is by far my favourite due to how well it has worked for us (encourages them to smell each other AND it's nice/a reward to clean off? Win/win). And most of all, take it slow. I've had rat intros that worked out in less than 24 hours, and had others that took 2+ months before I could trust them in the same cage.

Also, as previously mentioned, accept that it may never work out and that you may be raising 2 separate groups for the foreseeable future.
 
Last edited:
Can the free range area be the same for both groups at different times or would that have to be separate as well?
I would say the free range area can be the same for both groups - as long as they do not have access to the cage of the other (i.e. can't climb up the cage or anything). That should be fine. You might notice if the little ones can smell Timbit in the play area (since he's been there) they may be a bit more interested than usual/nervous initially; but they'll soon realize he's not there and be okay.
 
Back
Top