Should I breed?

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Willow Bean

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Messages
1,579
Location
Fargo, ND
I have been fighting with myself back and forth about whether or not I should breed my girl, Willow, again. She will be turning 1 on December 28th, and has a perfectly clear health background. I got her and one of my boys (Moosh) from a great breeder in Minnesota. She kept great records of her bloodlines and health checks. Anyway, Willow is very sweet, affectionate and beautiful. Moosh is a wonderfully sweet, healthy boy. They bred once, but the birth was a disaster. Willow spent 6 hours laboring and finally birthed 1 HUGE baby (3 times normal size) but he was still-born. She had him after 1 trip to the vet (I was afraid that she was having a tough time) and just before a second trip to the vet (she would have had a c-section). I have homes lined up and want desperately to have a couple of ratties from her bloodline, but not at the expense of my little girl. What do you guys think? Is it safe to try again? If I do it again I want it to be soon so she isn't too old.
 
Personally, I wouldn't risk it.
Next time you might lose her plus any babies.
Perhaps you could get another rattie from the breeder that is related to Willow if you want another rat with her "bloodline".
 
I agree with SQ. First of all, considering what happened on your first try, I wouldn't agree that she has a perfectly clear health background. And I sure wouldn't be willing to risk her life to test it.
 
I have to agree.

A friend of mine once asked if I could breed one of my girls with her male rat and I actually did consider it for a couple of hours. But I didn't want to risk it. After what happened last time. I wouldn't want to risk it again.
 
Hi Willow Bean!

Obviously, you love your Willow very much. I really do believe breeding Willow again is not a good idea. This time it could be fatal.
 
Thanks everyone for your advice! I do love my Willow very, very much and I had been arguing with myself about it for a while. We are trying to find her breeder again (she moved) and are having a little success with that. I think that the reason for Willow's litter size was due to the fact that her buck was not very persistent (every time he tried, she would raise up her butt and he would back off instead of go for it like he should have... not the brightest of boys, but very, very sweet) and the fact that it was her first litter and she was almost 1 already. It wasn't the best decision, I know. Anyhow, thanks again!! :D
 
Are you talking abouty Stacey? I don't know about you, but although I have heard good things from others, I haven't had good experiences with her. Feel free to PM me if you want to know more.
 
Her previous litter size had nothing to do with the buck being unsure of himself or her reaction. A female can be fertilized in a single mounting, which is why we are adamant about *never* allowing males and females to come in contact with each other. It literally only takes a second. The male would have fertilized more than one egg regardless of how many times he mounted. If there were complications, she may have reabsorbed the other fetuses, which then allowed the single surviving pup to grow so large.

That being said, it would appear that all of Willow's complications are from her own health problems. If you were to breed her again, you may very well lose her, along with whatever pups she may be able to birth. While some first births can be difficult for the first time mother, such an intense labor with the result of a single still born is abnormal. Especially with her being older, you can't guarantee that she could survive it again. I can also say that responsible breeders I know advise against breeding female rats past a year old.
 
I'm assuming that the "health problems" that keep being mentioned must be her age. She has, Honestly, not had any real health problems. She had a minor case of lice several months ago which she caught from another rat, other than that she has never really been ill. Every time that we go to the vet for Anything with Any of our pets we bring Everyone for a check-up to be sure that no one else is sick and that every one is on track for weight, health, etc. Willow has never been sick beyond a minor sniffle that we treated immediately with Baytril and which cleared up immediately since it was caught so early. (Thank goodness for the multiple pet discount at my vet office!! $45 flat fee plus $1 per additional pet.) She comes from strong, healthy parents who are/were resistant to Myco.

I just want to make sure that it is understood that she doesn't have health issues, I think that it was just her age and age-related decreased fertility which happens in all rats as they begin to reach menopause which is, I'm pretty sure, why it is advised not to breed after a certain age.

If there are other health problems that you are referring to, please say what they are so that I can ask my vet next time I see him. I want to know as much as I can about my rats but if there is something that I need to know, I need to be told what it is in order to learn more about it.

Thanks again to everyone who has helped me!! :D
 
No, the "health problems" would be what happened during her delivery. Something is not quite right inside or even in her genetic make up if that was how her labor went. Spending 6 hours in labor, birthing a single too large pup that was still born, etc.. All that is not supposed to happen, obviously. Even in bad situations, mothers do not tend to have those kinds of issues. I've also seen older rats who gave birth with very little problem. It's not advised, since it's entirely too stressful, but that doesn't mean it never happens. Those older rats came through their labors just fine and they were generally abused pet store stock given to rescues and such. Not half as healthy as your Willow.

While she may never have had a real resp infection, or anything along those lines, it doesn't mean she has absolutely no health problems. You can have heart problems, and still rarely get sick, as a human. So long as certain things aren't done, in this case breeding, the health issues aren't being aggravated, and there's no real concern at this point.

Also, I just noticed you saying Willow is from a breeder.. Did her contract allow breeding rights after you bought her? The breeders I know and deal with do not allow breeding on Pet Only contracts, and only allow Breeding contracts with breeders they know and trust.
 
yes, I contacted her breeder before considering breeding her. I got Willow last early February, and I asked her about breeding in May. I asked if it would be alright since I really wanted one of her offspring. She said that it was fine as long as she was the person that I went to for any questions that I had. Now she has stopped breeding (as far as I know) and has moved so I have no way of contacting her about my questions which is why I came here. She has several friends who have gotten rats from her and have bred their rats with her permission. When we got Willow, I asked if, in the future, I wanted to breed a rat with Moosh, one of the other rats we got from her, if Willow would be a good match for him. She said that their lines would go well together since both lines are healthy.
 
I would really not breed Willow. A rats normal litter size is 6-12 pups, and considering she had problems with her first breeding and only had the one, and it was huge, and it was stillborn that screams reproductive problems. Considering she was in labor for 6 hours and barely got through delivering the pup I would seriously NOT breed her again. Wouldn't you be concerned she would go through the same thing again this time and she would not survive?!?!
 
I see where it may have been confusing... :oops: I was talking about before I had bred her since someone had asked if I had permission from her breeder before hand. With all of the advice that I have gotten in response to my question though, it would be highly irresponsible to even attempt another breeding.

The reason that I asked here in the first place was because I was unable to ask the breeder (she moved and I can't contact her) and because the pet stores that I have asked have told me that it was just a fluke and that she is probably fine. After the long labor I wasn't even considering another breeding. AS much as I wanted one of her offspring, I didn't want to risk going through that again. But when I told some of the people I know at the pet stores about Willow, they told me that it was a fluke and I should try again. I considered it, but knew that my judgment was probably better than theirs, and also knew that I should probably get another opinion.

Again, I thank everyone who has responded to my question. :D I have decided to stick to my original decision and not breed her again. She will live the remainder of her life as she lived most of her life thus far; as a loved, spoiled and precious rattie.
 
The pictures are kind of big, but I didn't have much time to crop them down yet. Here you go!

Willow being naughty
IMG_3789.jpg


Willow and Moosh taking over the Kleenex box
IMG_3772.jpg



Willow is, I think, a powder blue verigated dumbo with blaze. I think the blaze is recessive since neither of her parents have it (I don't know about grandparents). However, one of her sisters has it, but in reverse. The powder blue is where Willow's white is and she white is where Willow's powder blue is. They are reversed. Hope that makes sense

Moosh is... hard to describe. I know that he is a Berk Dumbo and has 1 spot on his belly that is the same color as his fur, it's on his tummy and is the size of a pencil eraser. his paws are all white and his belly is all white except the one spot.
 

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