Raw feeding for dogs

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Jennw

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
170
Location
SW Ontario
We just adopted a new dog. (He's here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jennw/sets ... 122471326/)

He had a rough start to life. He's only 10 months old, and we're his fourth home. He has a deformed leg, and just recently had a paw amputated. However, he's one of the happiest dogs I've ever met, and we love him to pieces.

I'd like to start him on raw food in the new year. I've been researching it for a while, and think it's beneficial. He came with some decent food, but I'll be moving him over to Orijen until we make the switch to raw.

I'm just wondering if anyone has any tips or advice they'd like to share. Raw feeding is still fairly new for many of us, and it would be nice to share information so we can all learn to do it the best way possible.

So, discuss!! :D
 
I'd like to hear what a typical day's feeding would be like on the raw diet. The whole bit, with preparation and all.

btw what a sweet dog!!
 
Are you planning to feed a prepared raw diet or to make you own? I am planning to use PAWS-itively Raw for my cat when I get one next year. Also you`ll have to make a decision whether you want to go with Bones And Raw Food (BARF) (for omnivores) or Raw Meaty Bones (RMB) (for carnivores), which just depends on what you believe dogs are. I am planning on convinoing my mom to switch are six (going on seven) year old dog next year. Hopefully some one on this group feeds raw because I have never done it am in the same boat as you, when it comes to dogs.
 
My sister did the equivilant for cats. I think the only difference is that there aren't bones in the cat one. I'll ask her about it.
 
I went into researching it at one point when I wanted to do it for my animals (my parents aren't really for it, however, since once I move out there will be no one to prepare it). I don't remember specific things, but there are certain things you need to add to the meat (like certain oils). Preperation is a bit lenghty, but you can prepare a weeks worth of food and freeze it and just take it out when ready. Google!
 
Shall I start? I'll start.

There's a few ways you can go with raw. There are a few completely mindless ways of doing it. Pre-prepared, in a number of different formats.
http://www.tryhealthypaws.com/ is a good one, and comes with lots of different meat sources. Your typical beef and chicken and turkey, but also salmon, venison, etc. But man, it gets expensive.

http://www.mountaindogfood.com/ is a cheaper version but only comes in chicken and turkey formats. You are asked to add a kelp supplement which is pretty easy and not expensive.

What I'm seeing more and more of are pre-packaged supplement meals, usually freeze dried. You add your own meat and water and voila! food for a week.

http://www.urbanwolf.cc/ is one I learned about recently. Again, you add the meat. I think this is a very neat idea and want to learn more about it. I don't know what the price point is like. There are others like this out there, one is available by the Volhard people, mentioned below.


Then there are diets you can follow, formulated by others. I follow a slightly modified version of the Volhard Diet for Tungsten, as it is what my breeders use and recommend. When he was younger he got a breakfast that was natural oatmeal and some supplements, and his dinner was meat based.

Now he is on his single meat meal at night. To make things easier on me when I bring home his ground meat I package it into 12 ounce amounts and freeze them individually for easy thawing in the morning. His dinner consists of:

- 12 ounces ground meat
- safflower oil
- vitamin C/scorbate
- blackstrap molasses
- vitamin e
- vitamin b complex
- yogurt
- cod liver oil
- apple cider vinegar
- sea meal (in place of kelp)
- brewer's yeast
- garlic oil capsule
- calcium citrate (in place of bone meal)
- wheat germ
- wheat bran
- alfalfa

Every other day he gets an egg, and a couple times a week ground up fruit or veg. One night a week he gets cottage cheese instead of meat. And a few nights a week he gets a raw bone. Sometimes soup/marrow bones, sometimes chicken backs or turkey necks. Lucky duck got a lamb loin chop last night. He also gets organ meat (usually liver) at least once a week.

It SOUNDS like a lot of work, but a little bit of prep once a week makes the actual feeding very easy. It only takes a couple minutes, if that, to actually assemble it into his bowl. To make things easier I pre-measure out the meat, and if I'm in a pinch for ground fruit or veg I use baby food.

I don't know that I agree that a dog's diet has to be COMPLETELY grain free, as there would be very small amounts in whatever they would be hunting for themselves. So the wheat bran, germ and alfalfa are very small amounts. I also think that fruit and veg should be a part of the diet, again, from what they would ingest naturally. I'm not a fan of RMB only diets. They don't feel right to me. I have discussed this diet with vets and they have liked it.

I don't know that I want to use it forever even though everyone is happy with his condition.

Hopefully Gina comes along and tells us about her diet which I want to know more about also.
 
Moon, that's excellent. One of the things I was having a hard time getting information about was supplements.

Dee - I'd probably do my own. One of the reasons I want to switch is to have some control over where the meat is coming from, and how it gets from the farm to me.

(side note: I was brought up in a small (pop 500) farming community, and our livestock were loved, and almost treated like pets. They were killed as humanely as possible, and with much respect. Nothing went to waste, and the animals generally had a good long life before they were lunch. Most of the time, that's how I see meat. Living on the farm out in the middle of nowhere, I was mostly oblivious to the way modern-day meat factories work. Now that I'm aware of the inhumanity and degradation suffered by the animals who land on our plate, I am disgusted. I am not a vegetarian, but I am careful now where I get my meat, and really don't eat much to begin with, but will only buy from small family butchers who I have some manner of confidence in. (I won't buy grocery store meat.) I don't have any confidence in processing plants and kill floors and out-of-country manufacturers.)

So, here's everything I've learned so far. I've done a lot of Googling, and spoke in depth to some friends who do feed raw. One friend in particular seems to have an excellent diet for her dogs, and I'll probably follow her lead as much as I can. I want to make sure I have a plan, and a proper formula before we go to raw. When my friend started feeding raw a few years ago, there was virtually no information available. I started this topic, not for you to teach me and do my work for me, but for any insights or advice ANYONE who feeds raw can refer to. Googling gets me information, but it's always nice to hear it from real people, no?

One friend who feeds raw just gives her dogs chicken every night (and some supplements). It works for them, her dogs certainly do seem healthy. The other friend has sourced out lots of different meats, and changes it up for her dogs. I can probably get some of my meat from her, as she as already built up lots of contacts and is willing to share. She gets 30 pound roaster piglets, head and all, and serves the whole animal (not all at once, obviously). She gets rabbit, deer, cow, chicken, turkey, goat and pig. She feeds 'whole prey'. Not just meat and bones, but organs (in small amounts) and tripe and brain and tongue and tail - mimicking what they would eat in the wild. She also pulps all kinds of veggies and freezes them in smaller servings. Turkey necks are a big favourite. She does not feed leg bones, though, unless they are from very young animals. Weight-bearing bones are denser, and that's where the dog is more likely to break or chip his teeth. She does not feed heart or lung, since they are muscles.

She freezes her meat first, to kill off any bacteria. *Especially* the more wild/gamey stuff.

Her dogs eat at night, after they are done all their stuff for the day. It's the last thing they do before bed.

And I think for the most part, that's all I know. Which is not enough to make the switch. ;)
 
I too wanted to make my own but I am going to be a student still and there's no guarantee I will have a big freezer and unfortunately for cats whole prey = rats, mice, quails, cornish hens and baby chicks (EeeK!). Kudos to you for jumping on the raw boat it's a big step. Just one side note you may have to watch out about your vet (I don't know who you use) some get a little weird when raw feeding comes up.
 
I HIGHLY recommend feeding raw! My own dog has been on it for just over 6 years now and it was the only thing that keeps him healthy. We tried various kibble before such as Innova, GoNatural etc but he had horrible allergies. Within 2 weeks of him being on raw all the symptoms disappeared and never came back. We tried it as a last resort before putting him on daily steroids/antihistamines. Not something I wanted to do with a 6 month old pup.

6 yrs later and he is doing FANTASTIC and everybody who meets him for the first time they think he's 6 months old when in fact he's almost 7 yrs old :laugh4: His coat is extremely soft, he doesn't need a bath as he doesn't smell like a dog, his teeth are pearly white and he couldn't be healthier.

I generally buy my meat in bulk from a raw supplier. I buy it in 4.5 kg bags. Meat only. I divide it in single portions and add my own pureed veggie mix.

I used to add a lot of supplements at the beginning but all I still give is salmon oil, Vitamin E and Kelp. I do make sure he gets a big variety of different meat, veggies and fruit. He gets chicken, turkey, herring, salmon, moose, elk, buffalo, ostrich, lamb, goat, emu, pretty much any part. Beef he only gets the tripe as he doesn't tolerate other parts. And I don't feed rabbits as I got my own and well I just cant.

He also gets eggs, yogurt or cottage cheese about once a week.
 
Oh I did want to add that raw is best for dogs with fairly good immune systems, and although it came sometimes help a dog who has a health issue, it's better to be safe than sorry. Especially if the dog has a gastronomic/digestive issue.

Also, I am currently looking for a supplier for green, unbleached tripe. It is a great addition to the raw menu, fed once a week or so.
 
Oh, hey! Great thread! First of all congratulations on your new boy! He looks gorgeous – I especially love the head shots in the pictures you posted. He has a very sweet face ... he looks like an “old soul.” Bless you for seeing past his physical limitations and taking him into your hearts!

Now about raw feeding ... I think I feed just a little bit differently than moon in that I do feed bone (many raw feeders are not comfortable with this and will only feed a ground diet) and I practice the “ balance over time" philosophy whereas others follow the "balance at each meal" school of thought. Over the years, I’ve found an economical way to feed raw to two large breed dogs (I have Greyhounds), but it involves a LOT of front end work and wouldn't be possible without a deep freeze. The foundation of the diet I feed is raw meaty bones (primarily chicken [but as often as I can get it - turkey, beef or pork] backs and necks). On alternating nights Licorice and Oreo will get a meal of either muscle meat, ie. no bone - just meat (I try to give my dogs as much of a variety as possible beef, pork, lamb, rabbit, goat, salmon, herring, duck, venison, green tripe, etc - whatever I can get my hands on), a meal of ground vegetables, and a meal of organ meat. An egg and supplements are added to the muscle meat and organ meat meals (the supplements I use are Esther-C (vitamin C/scorbate), unsulphured blackstrap molasses, Vitamin E, a Vitamin B complex, Cod Liver Oil, Salmon Oil, Ground Kelp, and Ground Alfalfa – my dogs are older now so I also supplement them with Glucosamine) and canned fish and supplements are added to the veggie slop (this happens to be Oreo’s favourite dinner!). I feed twice a day, morning and evening. The morning meals are always raw meaty bones and the evening meals alternate between organ meat, raw meaty bones, veggies, raw meaty bones, muscle meat, raw meaty bones, etc., etc., etc., so every other day they get a day of just raw meaty bones all day.

I did a bit of research in the beginning sourcing out local suppliers and about three or four times a year I drive out to a chicken processing plant in Bradford (is it just me or does anyone else hear a banjo doing the theme song from The Beverley Hillbillies?), load up my van with about 350 lbs of necks and backs and I spend several hours (okay, so I'm lying. It's more like the whole damn day) standing at my kitchen table bagging it. Cost? $84.00. I have two freezers in the basement - one is exclusively for the dogs. I get turkey necks and beef trim from my local butcher for about .99 a pound. Ditto for the vegetables, every two or three months or so, I grind up about 20 lbs of veggies and freeze it.
That's the way I do it. Of course, you can also buy everything pre-made and frozen (Global Pet Foods carry many commercially prepared frozen raw diets), but as you know, you end up paying for the convenience. The only commercially prepared raw food I buy are the "exotic" proteins such as ostrich, buffalo, venison, etc. and only a few pounds of each - just enough to give the dogs a bit of variety.

If you haven't already, I would suggest that you do some reading first before making the switch. The two books that I like to recommend are: Switching to Raw by Susan K. Johnson. This is a "self-published" manual and is available through the author's website at: http://www.switchingtoraw.com/. The other book is Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats by Kymthy Schultz and I believe is readily available through amazon.com. Both books are very easy to understand and simple to follow. One thing that you should try to remember is that it’s perfectly okay for you to “tweak” the diet a little to find out what works best for you and your dog. As long as you follow the basic principles, you both should do fine.

Hope that helps!
 
sausage4ever said:
Just one side note you may have to watch out about your vet (I don't know who you use) some get a little weird when raw feeding comes up.
This is very true because it goes totally against everything the dog food companies teach them when they're in school! :lol:
 
Gina, I have no problem with RMBs, as Tungsten loves his, I just don't like the current trend of doing almost ONLY RMBs, with no veg or supplements.

I love finally seeing a full breakdown of what you feed. I'd like to follow a similar structure in the future and will confer with you closer to that time. The main problem now is freezer space, in that I currently have one small freezer that is dedicated to Tungsten. Living with 6 other people means freezer/fridge space is at a premium!
 
PiedPiper said:
sausage4ever wrote:
Just one side note you may have to watch out about your vet (I don't know who you use) some get a little weird when raw feeding comes up.
This is very true because it goes totally against everything the dog food companies teach them when they're in school!
sausage4ever said:
Just one side note you may have to watch out about your vet (I don't know who you use) some get a little weird when raw feeding comes up.
This is very true because it goes totally against everything the dog food companies teach them when they're in school! :lol:

You mean those high quality diets like Science Diet and Med-Cal :roll:
 
sausage4ever said:
PiedPiper said:
sausage4ever wrote:
Just one side note you may have to watch out about your vet (I don't know who you use) some get a little weird when raw feeding comes up.
This is very true because it goes totally against everything the dog food companies teach them when they're in school!
sausage4ever said:
Just one side note you may have to watch out about your vet (I don't know who you use) some get a little weird when raw feeding comes up.
This is very true because it goes totally against everything the dog food companies teach them when they're in school! :lol:

You mean those high quality diets like Science Diet and Med-Cal :roll:
:laugh4: Exactly!
 
moon said:
Gina, I have no problem with RMBs, as Tungsten loves his, I just don't like the current trend of doing almost ONLY RMBs, with no veg or supplements.
No, hon - I didn't mean you! But many people I know have had the fear of God put into them and can't quite bring themselves to feed bone. I, myself tend to shy away from the denser, weight- bearing bones, but over the years, I've gained a bit more confidence and let's face it, big dogs need big bones. Even so, I still tend to gravitate towards necks and ribs rather than long leg bones. Although I do have some big, venison bones in my freezer. I'd be happy to share if anyone is interested?

moon said:
I love finally seeing a full breakdown of what you feed. I'd like to follow a similar structure in the future and will confer with you closer to that time. The main problem now is freezer space, in that I currently have one small freezer that is dedicated to Tungsten. Living with 6 other people means freezer/fridge space is at a premium!
Yup, you'll definitely have to get a bigger freezer and when you do. Ask away, ask away! This is a subject that's of interest to me and I'm always glad to share and learn from others too!
 
I figured I would bring this thread back from the dead rather then just start a new one.

So as most of you know I am still living with my parents and our current dog eats crap food.
But in the next year or two I plan on having a place of my own with a dog of my own. I have recently joined a pit bull forum, to generally learn more about the breed, but to also get to know the ppl in the forum (its rescue based like this) but the person who owns it heads up a rescue of his own, where all the dogs live in foster care until proper homes can be found (which is a plus because they are already learning to live in a house before you get them)...

Anywho, back to the food. They of course suggest raw, but you don't have to feed it. I am very interested in doing so when I have a dog of my own and a freezer big enough to hold the food. So the forum makes big purchases (like you guys sometimes do with harlan) from this company:
http://www.omaspride.com/
I was thinking I could just purchase through them when the time comes, but I am wondering what you guys think? Does it seem like a good way to start feeding raw?

They have this whole regimen on their site: they seem to feed chicken mix for one meal and then turkey for another, with a supplement called missing links plus and then the dogs get something crunchy every single day...like a chicken neck, marrow bone, beef rib, there are soo many cruchy things to choose from!

Here's the link to the feeding regimen:
http://www.spbr.org/raw/raw.htm

Once you have the freezer space it seems rather easy...
 
Well this seems to be an excellent thread and I'm going to try and purchase the 2 books mentioned here. I have put in, what I feel is a good effort to get my dogs on raw and have failed miserably so I'm hoping someone can tell me where I am going wrong. I am currently making the switch 1/2 cup at a time so I don't cause stomach upset, but that's not working. Any type of organ meat is causing diarrhea, and so far I have tried: hearts, livers & gizzards, all from chicken. Chicken it self (bones included) work great. Besides the fact that crunching all that bone does gross me out and I find myself washing the kitchen floor every day, it seems to work well for doggies. NEXT: Can dogs have any kind of fish? So far tuna has been my only success. I went to an Asian grocery store and picked up a few different kinds just to try out for variety......to make a long story short, I tried Smelts the other day and that failed 100%. I swear those little fish were looking at me, just begging to keep them out of the dog bowl :shock: and when the girls were finished eating, I had all these tiny little fish spread out all over the kitchen floor. What dog do you know that won't eat fish???? They actually picked out all the kibble and when the fish got in the way, they picked it out of the bowl and dropped it on the floor. I could'nt believe my eyes so I called my husband and we sat and watched in total amazement.
So, what else can I feed besides chicken, where can I purchase any different meats here in Ontario and would a 50% kibble, 50% raw diet work?
I'm open to anyone's help as I'm not ready to give up just yet but I'm very flustered with the whole situation.
 
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