Rat very lethargic day after tumour removal surgery.

Discussion in 'Health & General Care' started by Olympia✨, Jun 13, 2019.

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  1. Jun 13, 2019 #1

    Olympia✨

    Olympia✨

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    I posted a thread the other day with some pre surgery questions but now I need some help with aftercare.

    Obi had a tumour removed from under his arm yesterday, we got home and all was fine, he was drinking and eating. That was until about 11pm when he managed to (what I thought) ripped his stitches open. So I bandaged him up and he’s been very lethargic since. We went to the vets today, vet said that stitches are fine and Obi probably bit through a sac of accumulated blood and other liquid, he put a mesh type of bandage over the wound and it has looked okay since. Obi was wiggling around and jumped into his carrier fine so vet wasn’t too worried about his supposed lethargy.

    However, ever since we returned home Obi has been very lethargic, he won’t get up himself to eat/drink so I have to hand feed/give him water. He will only eat soya yogurt and bits of watery fruits. When I take him out to check up on him, he does move around and he has no porphyrin and breathing seems good. I’ve been giving him 0.5mls of Metacam once a day to help with pain.

    Is this normal? I’ve been reading other people’s experiences and it seems like everyone’s rat was okay and up and eating/drinking after a few hours.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
  2. Jun 14, 2019 #2

    Dena

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    I gave a BIG boy of mine almost that much when he was in pain once, and he just layed around for almost a full day. Totally out of it, and could care less about life going on around him. I backed the dose off a tad for his next dose, and it really seemed to help.
     
  3. Jun 14, 2019 #3

    Olympia✨

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    He’s much better today thank you! Definitely ate that bowl of soya yoghurt I left him along with some other food and moved into his other hut. Just offered him some watermelon and water which he gladly took and doesn’t seem nearly as lethargic today;)
     
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  4. Jun 14, 2019 #4

    Rocket99

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    Omg, I just posted a long reply about my experience with this when my boy went for a neuter. And never came back out of it. It's very sad and probably noy a good read for you as it ends badly. But here's what I was told to do... First, my guy was given the injectable anethesia, NOT the gas. Which if I had known at the time, I never would have allowed. Anyway, they gave my boy the reversal drug, injection of course, (smh) and it did nothing! So, after the vet office (NOT my personal vet, but that's another story) hept him all day waiting for him to come out of his fog, they eventually had me take him home with this simple, solitary, useless instruction.... Keep jostling him around to help him snap out of it. Apparently, they can get, idk, like stuck in their sedated state. Mentally they can't break out of it, so if you help them by jolting them to come to, so to speak, they can snap to and become functional again. So, don't be violent or hurt him in any way, but really jostle him around. Be pretty rough, as if you are rough housing with him. My current rat with HLD gets the massages and jostle treatments, but he always gets too rough back with me snd starts biting, so I have to stop and calm him back down, lol. And you say it's been a while day now? I suggest calling your vet to see if he was given the reversal drug already. I dontd know if it's even effective that long afterwards, but it's worth a try at least. Good luck. And.... I'm very sorry. I will keep thinking pisitpos thoughts and hopefully he receives them and he pulls though. Get better little buddy.
     
  5. Jun 14, 2019 #5

    Rocket99

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    HERE IS A COPY OF MY POST IN THE THREAD ABOUT A RAT GOING FOR SURGERY TODAY....

    Beware, graphic (well, no really graphic, but detailed)

    Personally? If you don't know what he is using to sedate and for anethesia, I would absolutely find out beforehand! I recommend you strongly suggest he use gas, and NOT injection drugs. No.... I recommend be you DEMAND he not use an injected form of anethesia. If you very little, lightweight rattie is given just a little too much in the injection, he will have a difficult time coming out of it, and his recovery could become an emergency which has no treatment! They can try the reversal drug but it doesn't always work, especially with overdosed rats. I'm my guys case, they told me to take him home and keep jostling him around to help bring him out of it. I repeat... They SENT HIM HOME with me!!!! I'm not saying your vet would do that, as it is VERY unprofessional and outright WRONG to discharge a patient that is still under sedation, but they just kept my guy all day until it was 5pm and they wanted to close up and go home. To be fair, the owner of the vet office was not present that day. But anyway, so I was told to take him home and keep helping him to come out of it. After staying up all night with him, by morning it was obvious he was in trouble, so I took him to MY vet (the surgery was done on a foster who was not my personal rat, and so he went to where the rescue sent him, and that ended up with some very upset rescue administrators making angry phone calls) and my vet informed me that since he was administered the reversal drug and it had been many hours, there was nothing they could do and it was up to the rat to pull through. Or not. Again I took him home where, not 20 minutes after I arrived, he took his final breath, shuddered and passed away right in my hands. I was devastated. And very, VERY angry. Oh, and did I say that the never even closed him up!?!? He was only there for a neuter, and came home in a complete fog which he never came back from.
    So, I can't stress this enough, please make sure, in fact, DEMAND that they use gas, and NOT injectable drugs. If I understand correctly, they first have to sedate using a syringe, then put him under and keep him under with a anesthetic, which can be another injection, or....gas. Choose the latter, for you ratties sake.
     
  6. Jun 14, 2019 #6

    Rocket99

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    OMG I just realized that the other thread is yours from yesterday! I am so sorry I am a day late. And a million!. dollars short. Please read my posts and I am praying for your guy. In short...he's been over sedated. Call your vet to inquire the method they used...gas or injection, I'm pretty sure it was the latter. And if so, did they administer the reversal? If not, can they still do so now, after so much time has passed? I don't believe so, but it's worth asking. And start jostling him around like I described in my other post. This is serious, he should have come out of it long, LONG ago. I'm don't even want to type any more about this, I'm sorry. Bad bad memories are flooding back in now. Please read my 2 posts. And I wish him a full recovery, Praying for it too.
     
  7. Jun 14, 2019 #7

    Rocket99

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    Yay!!!!!! I'm so so glad to have seen this! I guess disregard my prior posts. Actually, no, keep them in mind for next time, if you ever have to have another surgery, knock on wood.
     
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  8. Jun 14, 2019 #8

    SQ

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    Wonderful News!!! So glad that Obi is feeling better!

    Rocket99, I am very sorry that happened. It does not sound like they knew what they were doing.

    Rats do not need to be given a sedative by injection prior to being given gas. When given the gas/oxygen mix, after taking a few breaths rats become sleepy and soon become unconscious. (I have no medical training but have been present when some of my rats have been given anesthetic.)

    Surgery always involves some risk for humans, rats, and other animals.
    That is why it is essential for surgery to be done by a good vet who has the knowledge and experience to operate safely on rats - it is different then other animals. If injectable anesthetic is used then the surgery is high risk and most rats will die unless you are using a very very experience exotic vet. If too much gas anesthetic is used, then rats may die as well. …….. According to my vet, dogs and cats also have a high mortality rates when injectable anesthetic is used.

    There is a link in the Reference Thread called Things To Discuss Before Surgery that gives information. https://www.ratshackforum.com/threads/things-to-discuss-before-surgery.7691/
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
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  9. Jun 14, 2019 #9

    Olympia✨

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    Hiya! Yes definitely keep what you wrote up as it might help other people searching through these threads in the future. I’m very sorry about your rattie and that you and him had to go through that.

    Obi was given gas anaesthetic and a pre injection of Metacam to help with pain, my vets are use to treating rats hence why it turned out well I guess. He’s still a little sleepy today but has been actively moving up and down in his cage and eating/drinking so I’m sure he’ll be okay :)
     
  10. Jun 14, 2019 #10

    Olympia✨

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    Thank you! Here’s Obi in his sock of shame ;)
     

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  11. Jun 14, 2019 #11

    SQ

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    Poor Obi …….. I am surprised that he is allowing the sock to stay on his neck

    It sounds like Obi will be fine :)
    ……. but I wonder if they gave a bit more gas or he was under for quite awhile as my rats are always awake and alert within an hour to a few hours after surgery

    Rats do not need to be given a pre injection of Metacam. My understanding is that it is safer if they are not given any injection until after the surgery. Vets I have used always give a Metacam injection for pain control immediately after surgery.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
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  12. Jun 14, 2019 #12

    Olympia✨

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    Could that be why he was that extra bit sleepy then?:confused:
     
  13. Jun 14, 2019 #13

    SQ

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    I have no medical training but I wonder if he was so sleepy because he received more gas …. maybe because they gave a more gas then he should have gotten - gas affects individuals differently OR because he received more gas because the surgery took longer
    or maybe the amount of metacam injected was high or impacted him more then expected
     

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