Oh No! Not this again... I found a small lump on Jazzy!

[jujubeespmud]

I just can't believe this...what is it with my rats? My girls GG & Ruby that I just had PTS had mammary tumors....that left Jazzy, sister of GG. I get another girl rattie for Jazzy and today I noticed a small lump on Jazzy. I presume it is a mammary tumor from the way it feels and it's location. It is small, a little larger than a pea size and it is on her chest near her arm pit, but more in the front! I need to take a proactive approach to this because I don't want to even go through this again with these girlies. It was tough to go through this with Ruby and GG. Months of just seeing these tumors get larger and larger and I could do nothing. However, I heard there are some natural approaches to help stop the growth of the tumors. I know girls are prone to these types of tumors, but is there something maybe I'm doing? Their rat room is dark most of the time and they get at least 8 hrs of total darkness. I even cover up my key board lights and my paper shredder light so it is completely dark. Any one have a suggestion?

 

[Fidget]

Those damned tumors! I've been thru so many too with my girls, and I did all the research I could about diet and comparing everything I was doing with what everyone else was doing.
Only thing I could come up with that made any reliable difference was a diminished chance of mammary tumors when they were spayed (which I never did cause I was saving all I could fot the no-doubt vet fund)
I don't think it's anything you're doing or not doing like you suggest with light & dark.
God, I'm sorry. I know how heartbreaking it is to feel that bump.
Whether you can do anything to fix it or not is totally apart from whether you did anything to cause it - you didn't.

 

[SoA]

I would suggest spaying your girls. Spaying reduces the chance for mammary tumors to something like 4%. Personally, I would never keep a girl intact, since they're so utterly prone to tumors, pyometra, reproductive organ cancers, prolapsed uterus, and more. I have 7 girls, all are spayed.

 

[jujubeespmud]

Oh, I don't feel so alone now that you sent that message to me. I guess it is what it is. I do know that spaying does the trick, but like you said, it costs a lot of money to do that. I don't always agree that it is good to put a healthy rattie under the knife if you don't have to...so if people are in a situation like mine, I can see having her spayed at the same time they remove the lump. Otherwise, I would not just go & have my girls spayed because they "may get a lump". You know what I mean? I've had other girls and they never had mammary tumors. I chose to have my last two just live out their life as long as possible because I couldn't afford the surgery to have the lumps removed..they were going to cost me $1000 for both girls. Even if I could have afforded one surgery I wouldn't have gone thru with it...how could I choose which rat would live? I couldn't so that's why I made the decision it did. Maybe I can take my girl to my vet and see if she'd be able to do the surgery for a reduced price. I'll think about it though. Thanks for your words, I needed to hear that. Julie

 

[SoA]

If your vet is rat-savvy, there is little to no risk with the surgery. My girls come home not knowing anything has happened to them, and their incision is gone in a week's time. I don't spay because they "might get a tumor," I spay to prolong their life.

Your vet charges outrageous prices. A lot of times vets will quote you an extremely high price to dissuade you from going ahead with the surgery, simply because they don't feel comfortable (or aren't knowledgeable enough) to perform it. You should phone other (exotics/small animal) vet clinics in your area to get price quotes. Spays are $60 for me, and tumor removals are around $30-$50, depending on size and how hard they are to remove.

Normally, vets charge anywhere between $80-$200 for a spay.

Herbs and other at-home, all-natural "remedies" are simply a bandaid for the problem, and really don't do much of anything. Personally, I get tumors removed as soon as I see them. The larger the tumors get, the larger the blood supply they take up, and also the harder they are to remove (and therefore are more costly). Plus, if you remove them when they're small, they don't usually grow back.

 

[jujubeespmud]

Chelsey,
Wow, that is a very inexpensive price! I do agree that my vet does charge a high price. You know what? The vet before this new one charged even more! Yep. I had taken my boy Splinter to my usual vet (the one I had started with when I first had my rats & spent over $2,000 over 3 yrs). They quoted me $1000 for removing a tumor that was the size of a walnut. I was floored! I couldn't believe it..after all of the money and trust I had with this particular vet. I went somewhere else and found a wonderful lady vet...she is very knowledgeable and caring. She charged me $460 for the surgery..almost half of the other vet. But for the quotes I was given for my girl Ruby to remove a mammary tumor (and she would do the spay at same time) it was going to be around $480-500. I just couldn't afford it.

 

[SoA]

That's utterly ridiculous! I can't believe those prices. I honestly wouldn't be able to have rats if I had to go to your vet (not to mention the previous one).

A friend of mine had to use my vet recently since one of her girls had a tumor that she wanted to get removed, and she also wanted to have her spayed at the same time. For both surgeries, her normal vet quoted her at around $250. My vet spayed Fiona and removed the tumor for $115.

It's kind of scary that it would cost less for you to fly your girl to me, have her spayed by my vet, and flown back. It seems like the vets in your area are very... money-grubbing :?

 

[Fidget]

If you can't afford to have them spayed do you just not take them? When you only have so much money you have to decide whether you can better their chances of a good life or hurt them.

I believe there's a higher chance even than 4% even of them avoiding mammary tumors at least if they are spayed - from what I've seen online.
I used to get my girls from the spca, and I know there was about maybe a 4% chance that they'd even see a vet for anything with someone else. But if I failed even 4% of the girls I took as far as not spaying them and eliminating a 4% chance of them getting avoidable tumors I know 100% that I gave them a good life with what I was able to provide..

Those f*ing tumors are hell on you. For the kids they are just one way of dying. I never blamed myself for them happening, cause I did my research to assure myself, but I did blame myself for not curing them.

jujubeespmud - I 've had 3 boys spayed and 2 died from it and one went thru months (and a lot of money) of hell. Surgery is no walk in the park unless you have a really good rat vet, some of us do and some of us don't. Like you say, the risks are a consideration too.

You know rats die mostly from tumors and respiratory problems. You don't need to blame yourself for anything here. Maybe you could have gone into debt to give them another couple months, maybe you could have kept a tumor from imobilizing them til a Pituitary Tumor did.
Everyone has to make their own choices about where keeping the kids going is for the kid or themselves.

You did your best by your babies. They don't read a calendar. They only know how they feel each day - the world they live in.

Bottom line - some people can afford spays rather than having to just hope. Some people can even afford a necropsy when they die. That's great, it benefits us all, but we can't all afford it, some of us need to keep the money in the vet fund.
We don't all have to be able to do everything everyone else does to be good parents.We just have to make sure that we do our best to make sure their days are good and they don't suffer anything.

You're a good mom. If you start thinking you're doing them wrong then you leave them to worse forces than love.

 

[SoA]

If I can't afford the spay, no, I won't adopt them. Then again, I've never not adopted because of that reason.

All of my rats are spayed and neutered. Personally, I feel they are much healthier and happier that way, and their lives really are prolonged because of that. I don't feel that it's an elective surgery, which is where we differ, I think.

 

[jorats]

I completely agree with SoA.

All my females are spayed when they come to live with me. I just can't deal with those tumours. It's true even with a spay, there's still a risk of developing a tumour but it's quite low and well worth it for me. A spay costs me $260. I've never lost a rat to a spay but then again, I've got a most excellent exotic vet.

But it's true not everyone can afford such an expense so I guess you deal with it the best you can. I know I wouldn't be able to. It crushes me so.

 

[papercrow]

Hey Julie--I have a pretty good vet in the Parkville/Carney/Towson area. I had my Walden neutered going on three weeks ago and he only charged me $93. Although exotics aren't his specialty he is very open to new information and I have been pleased. Besides he is a FANTASTIC dog and cat vet. PM me if you want his info.

 

[jujubeespmud]

I do realize spaying is best. I would do it if I had the money but right now that isn't possible. I do plan to take Jazzy to the vet for this lump. I will see what the vet can do for her. I will let you know the status of this situation. It isn't a question for me whether a rat is worth having spent a lot of money for medical care. I would do it in a heart beat, no questions asked..and I have. Like I said previously, I have spent more than $2,000 on my rats for medical care..and that is not included the times I paid to have them pts. I am not particularly worried about respiratory issues at this time. I wouldn't have been able to say that in the very early part of my having rats, because I wouldn't known exactly what to do for them. However, I have gained more knowledge about how to treat them. I have my own stock of medications. I have the basics...baytril, amoxy..doxcy..metacam, motrin, prednisone. I am comfortable with treating them for respiratory issues. However, when it comes to those d%#^^# lumps! forget it. Obviously I can't remove them. Wish I could. I had my boy Splinter operated on to remove that walnut sized tumor from the top of his neck. He healed nicely after the surgery..no abcessess but then 3 wks later he started with some respiratory issues. Before I knew it, he had died in his sleep. Now there is nothing to say that he would or wouldn't have died if I didn't have the surgery. It just had to be done period. I had a boy Stewart, whom I had to rush to the PET ER to have an emergency neuter. He ended up with a nasty abcess and I kept taking him back. He had such a nasty abases that he had 4 different bacterias in there. It cost me bookoo bucks to take him back and have needle aspirations and labs tests run for this infection. We had him on strong antibiotics for 30 days..He was getting worse and there wasn't anything I could do for him but to put him to sleep to relieve him. That's what I did. I had spent $360 for the neuter, and several hundred dollars afterward only to have him pts. Was it worth spending the money? Yes, most surely. I loved him very much. Some people would think I was a nut to spend that much money because in their eyes I could go get another rat for $8. That may be true, but not my rat..not the one I loved and that loved me. I do think it is worth it. However, times are tough and I'm trying my best to give my rats a good home. I know they are getting a better home than most are! I have considered sticking to boy rats, but I ended up having one girl left and that is why I took the new girl so she could have a friend. They both are real sweeties.

 

[Lise]

It is SO frustrating to watch these tumors grow. Probably the worst part of rat ownership, in my opinion.

SoA all of the exotics vets here are experienced, but still charge ridiculous prices. In fact, they tend to charge more because they have the exotics continuing education training, and certification with Avians, etc. It all depends on where you are located. If a spay was $60 here I would surely have all my girls spayed. But a neuter costs $200 (I paid it for my 2 boys), and I was quoted $500ish for a spay. Sometimes there is no such thing as a cheap vet in the area....

My vet also showed me an article in a medical journal saying that spaying reduced mammary tumor occurances by 25% in rats. So I would be curious to know where it says it reduces it to only 4% chance??

I have been giving the coriolus mushroom supplement and it seems to have helped a bit slowing growth of tumors. I dont' think there is anything that will ever make them stop growing though. We just need to buck up and remember the rats are not in pain, it is often harder for us than it is for them.

 

[SoA]

Now I feel like a liar since I can't find the article :lol: I did find this, which has soom good percentages in the conclusion at the bottom.

 

[Lise]

Thank you, I actually hadn't read that article before. If those figures are right then it definitely does point to spay as many as possible!

This part is funny, referring to unspayed females - "somewhere around 17%-76% develop mammary tumors". No difference in those statistics! It shows you that there is SO much varying information out there.

I do think that it is right to present the option of spaying to everyone, but I also think that you can still be a responsible rat owner even if you elect not to spay.

(And you can send your vet up on here to Canada..... )

 

[jujubeespmud]

It is quite frustrating when it comes to dealing with these tumors. My hubby says that if rats live only to be 2-2 1/2 yrs old and they have all these medical problems, than I'm going to be crying all of the time. He can't stand it..I think he feels badly and doesn't want to get sucked into getting attached actually. Although, he says rats are his cup of tea..he sees them on the rail road all of the time, so he's not thrilled that I keep them. Aah, that doesn't matter, everyone has a hobby, so mine is rats! hehe...I still will love them and even if they only live a short life, they are so cool. I just never imagined how neat of a pet they really are. ...and each one has his/her own little personality. Thanks for everyone's input on the subject. I'm going to be contact a new vet soon, so hopefully I can get this situation under check.

Well, I will post some pics soon of my girls ..in their Christmas attire! lol...Julie