Mr. Finn, RIP precious boy 10/7/13, The End of Finn's story

[dspch911]

Unfortunately I do believe Mr Curley will now be our first loss. Despite what last night's vet said I'm pretty convinced along with his URI he has PT. :cry4:

 

[violet976]

I'm new to this thread and it's larger, so I'm sure I just missed it... but has he been treated for possible PT at this point? I'm assuming he's probably had something that might have shown improvement for PT as so many of the experts are already on this thread, just wanted to ask. I know for me, at least, a dex injection or oxygen or a cortisone shot is usually my "last ditch effort" depending on what symptoms my rat is presenting when I get to the vet. When I'm at the point of feeling like we've exhausted all measures, if one of those applies we usually try one or more of those options and hope. I'm certainly no expert though. Mine normally exhibit respiratory issues these days, so our normal course has been trying multiple combinations of ab's, then a diagnostic heart heart med if it looks possible, for the respiratory girls then the cortisone shot or pred or dex. Dex, I feel for me, has almost always been something that we've tried at the very end for each rat if it looked like there was enough hope left to do so. For some, they had suffered to greatly or too long and needed to be let go fast, but for most we give it a try.

I'm honestly one of those who has a hard time giving up though. I do well so long as I can keep trying things, but having to admit when I'm out of options... well, it's not my strong suit, so it's probably best to go off the majority and primarily the experts who've dealt with these issues time and time again. Personally, if I thought I was seeing signs of PT, I would push for the dex/bromo with everything I had. I always tell my vet, "if I'm going to lose them anyway and he doesn't think there is much hope, then we've got nothing to lose by trying *something*". If it doesn't work, I was going to lose them anyway. If it makes them worse, I was going to lose them anyway. If, on the very small chance it *does* work, we had *everything* to gain.

 

[dspch911]

Finn has not been treated for PT he still has full use of his hands and can grasp anything. His main problem is not being able to sit and eat without fallen over, but my fighter has shown me he that as long as I place object in his cage (treehouse hideout, liter pan, whatever) close enough together or close to the cage wall itself, he can wiggle and prop himself in between and stay upright. So, as long as he isn't giving up neither am I ! I didn't want to jinx anything by posting this, but his continual left head tilt and his circling to the left has greatly improved since I started him on the baytril/doxy. I had originally started him on the combo because I figured it couldn't hurt and maybe he did have an underlining ear infection that was being overlooked due to the kidney issue, but then he started having a yelping cough which has also stopped. So basically Finn can still do everything its just so HARD for him and he is very unsteady and clumsy. I am fearfully he will fall off a ramp or shelf so I try to keep stuff there to catch him or at least cushion the fall. Of course his improvement could have nothing to do with the baytril/doxy and quite possibly be that I took away the paper potty liter that he was eating - I don't know maybe its just a good few days and tomorrow will be another bad one - I hope not, but I'm learning that Finn is very unpredictable, but a tough little fighter!!

 

[violet976]

That does seem like an inner ear to me, but again, I'm no expert. I've only had one with major head tilt/ear infection issues. Gizmo came to me with a bad head tilt, but she would also roll something terrible when picked up. Does yours roll when picked up? We ended up giving her a hard course of baytril/doxy, and then assumed that the infection was probably gone but the head tilt there to stay. She never seemed bothered by it again until her later days, and even then I suspect it was primarily respiratory troubles that wore her down. She was my first and only head tilt girl though, so I've not much experience overall with it.

I thought inner ear infections could be tough to nip, so perhaps a different or more aggressive combo of abs would be needed. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. Otherwise I'd be inclined to try the dex, just to see if there was any response. Perhaps if there was is would point you in a more definite direction.

I'm so sorry for you both. You're at the place I absolutely dread to be, and it always feels like there should be something that should be working for them. He has a wonderful companion though to care so much for him and to be doing so much to try and give him the best life possible. I'm thankful that he ended up in such loving hands. Not all rats are so lucky. Just be sure to soak up those good days. Many times I almost miss them because I'm so busy trying to find anything I am overlooking by researching online. This week I had to remind myself to just sit back and soak up my wee ones, because there is absolutely no guarantee of what we'll have with them beyond today. It's so easy to forget when you are trying to save them, but I think those "breaks" to just sit and enjoy them and love them also help keep our heads clear, and give us more time to truly observe their current condition for anything we may be overlooking.

 

[dspch911]

I suppose you could call it a roll when I pick him up, but I just assume he is trying to get away since he is probably assuming its medicine time!! But you need to remember we do know his kidney aren't functioning properly since all his urine tests show high protein. I'm not putting him through a blood test for more definitive testing. He's also drooling excessively, but ONLY when at the vet. He did it yesterday too and I only took him as a companion - the vet never laid a hand on him, but he not only peed on me while I held him, but drooled. Peeing at the vet is another Finn thing!

 

[violet976]

Hmmm. Well, I know Gizmo definitely rolled whenever I picked her up at first. Scared the **** out of me and it took me awhile to learn how to pick her up to where she wouldn't do it. It reminded me of how crocodiles roll... just *whoops, there she goes*. Eventually she either mellowed, got better, or just got more comfortable being picked up, but in later months when she didn't do it for me anymore I'd forget to mention it to the vet, and sometimes when she was stressed there they would almost drop her out of surprise.

For all I know though, some of the other issues/diseases that cause balance issues might result in rolling too. I was never sure if it was strictly an ear infection symptom, or just an overall loss of balance symptom. I just knew that Gizmo's was from the ear infections.

That's very strange about the drooling only at times of stress, I would assume (at the vet). I've only ever seen mine drool when choking or having seizures. I wonder what would be causing that. Is that relatively new as well, or has it always been so?

 

[BlueSkyy]

dspch911 -

Squid drooled a lot during his final days, and he had kidney failure/cancer too. Kinda of a brownish-tinged watery drool, mostly when he was stressed. Got ALL over the front of him and matted his fur something awful. These were his symptoms in rough order of appearance:

Lethargy/not eating his normal solid treats
Weight loss
Thinning fur
Wild head-swinging/struggling when offered liquid food
Drooling
Not eating anything unless syringe-fed
Dehydration, extreme weight loss, extreme lethargy <-- When he hadn't moved an inch in over 24 hours and had refused all food and water, I knew it was only the SQ fluids keeping him alive and decided to help him pass on.

I think the only times Squid ever showed a rolling behavior was when he tried to do his head-swinging while I was going to pick him up.

I'm glad your boy is holding steady-ish. I think it's because Finn hasn't stopped eating/completely lost his appetite like Squid did. That, or Finn only has kidney failure whereas Squid had failure combined with kidney cancer/tumors.

 

[dspch911]

Drooling is new only started about 5 weeks ago. Vet thought it might be related to his back teeth, but since it only happens at the vet we were not going to let her put him under to check his teeth. He drools a lot - under his chin is soaked by the time we leave. He doesn't do an alligater death roll - its more of a flop over roll. Finn is in the cage where most of my boys have the URI - GMC has it the worst, his lungs are junk and we can hear him breathing a room away, Bumbles has been looking so so these days he has porphyrin nose some days more than others, but he has always been that way, and Kona so far hasn't shown anything alarming. The URI's have been going on for about 5 weeks now so it quite possible Finn caught something else in that time period and the antibiotics are helping with that and/or he did have an underlaying infection. I don't know, I'm new to rats and feel like I've been tossed to the wolves lately.

 

[Joanne]

If your boy is only drooling at the vet's, then that is a pretty strong sign that it's just stress. I really would not worry about it unless it becomes a constant thing at home.
Years ago we took our dog back to the breeders for a visit, and she drooled like crazy --> stressed to the max! Not an ongoing issue.

 

[dspch911]

dspch911 -

Squid drooled a lot during his final days, and he had kidney failure/cancer too. Kinda of a brownish-tinged watery drool, mostly when he was stressed. Got ALL over the front of him and matted his fur something awful. These were his symptoms in rough order of appearance:

Lethargy/not eating his normal solid treats
Weight loss
Thinning fur
Wild head-swinging/struggling when offered liquid food
Drooling
Not eating anything unless syringe-fed
Dehydration, extreme weight loss, extreme lethargy <-- When he hadn't moved an inch in over 24 hours and had refused all food and water, I knew it was only the SQ fluids keeping him alive and decided to help him pass on.

I think the only times Squid ever showed a rolling behavior was when he tried to do his head-swinging while I was going to pick him up.

I'm glad your boy is holding steady-ish. I think it's because Finn hasn't stopped eating/completely lost his appetite like Squid did. That, or Finn only has kidney failure whereas Squid had failure combined with kidney cancer/tumors.

When we first started bringing the boys to the vet for suspected mites what I pointed out on Finn was his thinning fur. In fact, I believe I may have posted a picture on here of it along w/the boys scabs, but I'm not sure. I know I took a picture of that specifically and sent it with the bf to the vet since I could not make it that day due to work. I will see if I can find it. I am not sure when the head swing started I would have to re-read this thread, but what is that? Do you have any idea what is causing it? It seems that he cannot eat because of the swing - its almost like Parkinson's of his head - because he cannot control it enough to lower his head to grasp the food. With the prednisolone he would improve some, but then plateau so we would have to increase it, but the plateau would come sooner with each increase and now we are at the max dose. I have not seen Finn drink from the water bottle since this began - we have attempted to syringe water into him, but its quite a struggle and we don't want him to aspirate it into his lungs so we just try to keep him hydrated with plenty of water filled veggies/fruit (melon, cucumber, extra fluid in baby cereal, etc) I would also describe Finn's rolls as caused by the head swinging - that is a very good description and I would also have to say that is probably what is causing him to loss his balance - especially when eating. The first symptom I noticed was when I saw him having difficulty getting out of the liter pan because he seemed as though he couldn't move his hind end. If there was anything before that - I didn't see it or I know I was looking at something I should be noticing. Finn was never an out going ratman. He has always been very timid and easily startled. He liked to keep to his rattie buddies and when he did venture out it was from hiding place to hiding place and he usually had Bumbles with him. He was really just starting to become a social rattie.. He has lost over 200g in the two/two and a half months since this started, but he has never stopped eating. Today is the first day he didn't take his dinner, but he may later - at least I hope he will eat something. I hope I will know when its time. I thought for sure I would be taking him tomorrow to PTS, but once again he's fought back.

This is the thinning fur pic

Mr Finn in good days

About 5 1/2 weeks ago

 

[dspch911]

I mentioned this in another thread, but Saturday night I found blood around Finn's mouth. Last night it was there again. It appears he is biting something when he eats solid food and its causing bleeding. Couldn't really tell what it was since he became a really angry Finn when I tried to look in his mouth - not sure if a saw a grown, sunken in cheek skin, or possibly a problem with his teeth (other than him wanting a piece of my finger!) How much more does my poor boy have to take!

 

[dspch911]

He fought the good fight, but as hard as we tried we could not save our sweet Mr. Finn and he was helped over the bridge tonight also. We love him, mourn him, and will miss our "spinnie" Finny, rest well my love! Memorials will be written later (when we stop crying)

 

[hopefloats]

I am so sorry you had to put them both down. I took 3 in on one day and it was so hard to do. Hugs to you both again! Rest well Finn.

 

[jorats]

I'm so so sorry. :sad3:

 

[victoria]

:hugs:

 

[mamarat]

:hugs:

 

[Godmother]

I am so sorry for your loss.

 

[violet976]

I'm so very sorry for both of your losses. I hope they had a wonderful life with you, even though I know it is never long enough, and I hope they were able to carry each other into the next one. They are free now, and both fought with all their strength very impressive battles to keep going. You did wonderful things for them, and most importantly, you simply showered them both with love. I believe they carry that love with them always, and I believe you will see them again one day when it is your turn to join them. <3

 

[Unepuce]

My God... :hugs: :hugs:

Two tough fights ending tonight. I feel your pain. But I like to think that Finn and Curley will travel to and enjoy the Bridge together... and will be watching over their mom...

 

[Joanne]

Oh no, not both boys? I'm so sorry! I'm sure you are devastated, but after such a long and tough fight you can finally relax a bit knowing that they are both OK and at the bridge together. :heart: