Minimum Course for Antibiotics

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Good Karma

Good Karma

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2007
Messages
353
Location
Guelph, Ontario, Canada
Hi Everyone,

As you guys know my Gobo is on Baytril for a respiratory infection. The vet prescribed 7 days of it; .15 ml twice a day.

A few of you said that this was not long enough to treat a respiratory infection. I discussed it with my vet and she said her textbook said 7 days and that she was worried about using too much antibiotics. She said some vets tend to over-prescribe.

She did however prescribe me 7 more days. However now i am torn. I don't know if i should give him the next 7 days or not. I see my vet's point and i hate to over-medicate - i hate medicating at all! But i also know that all of you have a lot of experience.

For those of you who have lots of experience with rats and RIs could you please give me your input.

Thanks,

Tara & Gobo
 
It is a very controversial issue with a handful of long term rat owners taking the side that rats are commonly overmedicated.
I think that experience really plays a key role in determining how long to medicate. How severe the flair up is very commonly misdiagnosed by vets without a lot of rat knowledge, so many tend to undermedicate thinking the rat is better off than they are. Combine that with the fact that very often the antibiotic concentration they provide is also too low and you can have serious resistance issues later on. Maybe if they increased the concentration the time that it is being given could be decreased, but they don't have enough current medical knowledge to do that.
I think that undermedicating a rat who then very quickly relapses into a sometimes even more severe flairup is more detrimental long term than overmedicating a bit, so I tend to think that seven day courses are too short. When they relapse very quickly after the first course you are now faced with having to increase dosages and doing a longer course than you would have if they had been diagnosed properly to begin with.
Rats have a high tolerance for antibiotics as well which puts them in a much better situation than other animals, guinea pigs come to mind because they are very sensitive to antibiotics, so I would go with the longer course if it were me.
 
Print this and take it to your vet.

http://www.rmca.org/Articles/dchart.htm

And this...
http://ratguide.com/meds/antimicrobial_ ... aytril.php

The ratguide.com is kept up to date all the time, unlike her books which are probably outdated now. Its a great resource for owner and vet alike. :)

Definitely put your boy on the extra 7 days of baytril. I helped out a woman who had 7 days of doxy/baytril for pneumonia...and she was so happy that her rat was "recovered" I warned her that 7 days was not enough and that he very likely would relapse a few days after stopping the meds. Think of it like a campfire. The first 7 days tamp down the fire until you cannot see it but there are glowing embers underground which flare up. The 14 days makes sure that fire is truly out.
 
I don't like to medicate my girls unless I absolutely have to. I give everything 3-7 days to clear up, depending on the severity of the symptoms before I even think about medicating them.

That being said, 7 days isn't enough. My vet recommends I treat for atleast one week after all symptoms have ceased. Sometimes that works out to 14 days, sometimes it's another week or two. She says it's to make sure that any/all bacteria causing the flareup has been killed off and isn't just sitting there. I've used this method for all of my girls, and I haven't had to medicate them all that much since I started seeing this vet. Previously, I was giving my first girls short treatments of about 7-10days, and they were constantly ill when they were younger.
 
In all the rats I've had, I go anywhere from 10 days to sometimes years.
I always have post mortems done on my rats so I know that Baytril and Zithromax do not affect any organs from long term use so I'm not worried about long term effect either. But 7 days is definitely too short.

I like to wait a day or two to see if whatever they are starting really does require medication. With time and experience, your gut instinct will tell you when it's needed and when it's time to stop.
 
6-12 weeks?!? Wow... does it say why so long? My worst myco rat, Ghost, was on Baytril almost since Day 1 with us until she passed away (about 6 months after we got her) and it never cleared up but our other rats were good after about a week but we medicated for 1 more week to be safe. Is the 6-12 for severe cases?
 
My vet always advises doing at least 4 weeks when treating any lung related illnesses. But if it's clear that after a couple of weeks it's not working, then it's time to add another med to the list.
I would guess that 6 to 12 weeks is to make sure that the med did the job, better than medicating too short which can make the bacteria stronger.
 
I would guess that 6 to 12 weeks is to make sure that the med did the job
Click to expand...

agreed.
She says that myco is so resistant you treat it for 6 to 12 weeks so the symptoms don't come right back.
And she agrees with what you wrote, if meds aren't working you change the meds ... I guess this could mean adding to the combo or a different combo of antibiotics.
 
It's really good information to know, I honestly hadn't heard of treating for that long. DO you have a webpage or something with the information on it that I can bring in to m vet's office next time (hopefully there won't be a next time, but it's inevitable) I have a myco problem?

Thanks so much for telling us about the 6-12 weeks!!
 
lilspaz68 said:
The ratguide.com is kept up to date all the time, unlike her books which are probably outdated now.
Click to expand...
Amen! The things I wish I'd thought to mention when my vet was perturbed that I should question her treatment. I wish I'd thought to mention that rather than being intimidated.

Thanks for that link too Vanessa, it's a really good one.
I saw Recent Bloodshed - it sounds to me like maybe Gobo isn't feeling real good and he's cranky & taking it out on the others? Not to scare you, but keep a close eye, maybe there's more going on with him and he's feeling some pain?
 
lilspaz68 said:
The ratguide.com is kept up to date all the time, unlike her books which are probably outdated now. Its a great resource for owner and vet alike. :)
Click to expand...

I think there is a misunderstanding about The Rat Guide website. It is not run by Debbie Duccumon, it is run by Karen Grant who hangs around mostly on The RatList Yahoo Group. Unless Karen is distributing a printed guide herself now, which I hadn't heard of.
Karen's other site is KuddlyKorner4U which has always been very popular. Karen is an RN in the states, and gets a great deal of information for the website from the PHD's she works with at the hospital.
Debbie Duccumon, who is a PHD herself, releases a new version of her Rat Guide almost every year, so she doesn't let things get too outdated. Karen's website is definitely more up to date, though. If you purchase a membership at Debbie Duccumons internet group, The Rat Fan Club she probably posts updates and whatnot there between versions so people can keep current.
 
Vanessa said:
lilspaz68 said:
The ratguide.com is kept up to date all the time, unlike her books which are probably outdated now. Its a great resource for owner and vet alike. :)
Click to expand...

I think there is a misunderstanding about The Rat Guide website. It is not run by Debbie Duccumon, it is run by Karen Grant who hangs around mostly on The RatList Yahoo Group. Unless Karen is distributing a printed guide herself now, which I hadn't heard of.
Karen's other site is KuddlyKorner4U which has always been very popular. Karen is an RN in the states, and gets a great deal of information for the website from the PHD's she works with at the hospital.
Debbie Duccumon, who is a PHD herself, releases a new version of her Rat Guide almost every year, so she doesn't let things get too outdated. Karen's website is definitely more up to date, though. If you purchase a membership at Debbie Duccumons internet group, The Rat Fan Club she probably posts updates and whatnot there between versions so people can keep current.
Click to expand...

Karen hasn't printed up anything yet, she is just working on constantly updating the online http://www.ratguide.com.
 
Vanessa said:
Debbie Duccumon, who is a PHD herself, releases a new version of her Rat Guide almost every year, so she doesn't let things get too outdated.
Click to expand...
Sounds like it would be a good investment in my kids well-being (and a money-saving one too) to buy the damn book for my damn vet. Where do you get it?
 
jorats said:
I was told it was Bella of Bellaratta that created and runs the Rat Guide.
Click to expand...

Bella has a lot of input into it and might do some of the admin work, but Karen owns it and contributes the lions share of information found there.
 

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