Likely pituitary tumor

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sonnyvincent

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Need help & suggestions for my last female rat, Dallas.

She has suddenly taken ill and it look as though she has a pituitary tumor. She did not seem to have the symptoms leading up to when it finally became obvious. What symptoms she might have had, I sadly attributed to other things. Her appetite issues which would come and go, I attributed to her loneliness as she's the last female in her cage. Her head tilt I attributed to late treatment of an ear infection. Those were the only two symptoms from the list I've seen that she showed.

Until Wednesday afternoon.

Back a night to Thursday night. I came in to feed her her nightly feeding. Noticed she hadn't touched her dry food. So, as I have been doing whenever she loses her appetite, I made her baby cereal. She was not grateful. She was active as usual, she ran up and down her ramp. Then she climbed into her hammock as if to say she'll get to the cereal when she darn well pleases. (This is Dallas's personality lol).

Now Wednesday afternoon. Dallas, who ALWAYS chills in her hammock, if found unresponsive lying on the lower level of her cage on fabric. Not in a spot where she would land after falling from a hammock. She lets me touch her and doesn't nip at me as usual (it's our "game", well HER "game" with me). I pick her up. She doesn't jump out of my arms as per usual. She doesn't seem to be able to really move. She moves her fists close to her face but her legs are outstretched.

I think I'm losing her. I research and ask questions on another group and the PT does seem like the closest thing.

I did not believe she could move but last night she moved from under the "cover" fabric I made her to the top. She was warm, she must've been too hot. Then tonight after a feeding I saw her walk the entire perimeter of the hospital cage. She's probably confused as to where she is.

While she CAN move, she rarely does. She drank Tuesday night but not during the morning attempts or throughout the day. Not interested in water, suger water, or pedialyte. She will eat. Yesterday she ate a 1/2 spoonful of baby cereal, a spoonful of Jello, a spoonful and a half of baby banana food, and 2 1/2 spoonfuls of yogurt. I am NOT sure if she is eating enough. All these feedings were spread through 6 separate feedings. They seem to tire her out. But aside from being not very interested in her first meal of the day she ate everything offered to her. So far just things she can lick.

After she eats she has a ritual of grooming her face and then making some strange sounds with her mouth. Like she's grinding her teeth. She breathes heavily after an eating session as well.

What else-- I'm givig her infant ibuprofen for the fever and it has seemed to have helped. I found her moved under one of the fabrics so she must not be too hot anymore to be under any of them. I'll give that to her regularly with feedings.

I've given her prednisoone, one dose so far per dosing instructions found on another site. I read that this can be useful in cases where a rat might survive a PT, as the main medication takes awhile to kick in. And that at the least it can offer some comfort at end of life.

My concern mostly is the liquid. I was able to mix only 1/2 ml of pedialyte with her last helping of yogurt which she took but she won't take liquids out of a bottle or a syringe- and even if she took it out of a syringe I've read she'd need 60 syringes full (it's a 1 ml syringe).

If she's eating but not drinking that's not good enough, right?? Any suggestions? She is NOT an Ensure rat. We had some last year when I had a very sick rat and when she passed we let the other rats use the rest. Some liked it, Dallas was not one of those.

Thank you
 
I might have given you the ibu dosage on RRLWK, is she the nakie girl?

but if you plan on giving her steroids, you will have to stop the ibu...they cannot be given together.

it sounds exactly like PT sadly. :( She's bruxxing her teeth, and the grooming and clubbed paws near the face are classic. I am sorry. PT sucks.
 
Hi, I'm sorry your girl probably has a PT.
Some PTs respond well to medication. I have a rat right now with a PT. She is on Dexamethasone once a day (a steroid to reduce swelling) and Cabergoline every third day (for the actual tumour). With these meds she is able to get around and eat soaked blocks and groom herself.
It is common for rats with a PT to brux (grind their teeth) really hard. You should continue to syringe feed her liquidy foods so if she doesn't drink she is getting fluid.
NSAIDs (Ibuprofen) are contraindicated with steroids (Prednisone), so do not give her both. If you want to make the effort, then I would take her to the vets to get medication for the PT (Cabergoline or Bromocriptine) and Dexamethasone.
Some people choose not to treat them and let the rat die at home. I personally think it takes too long, so I would rather treat and then they crash and die faster when it is time.
My girl Tabi was pretty well potato status when she went to the vets, but she bounced back with meds fairly quickly and it has been a month since then.
Good luck with whatever you choose to do.
 
Can Tylenol be given to rats or is it the same as with steroids? The ibuprofen has reduced her fever, I found her last night burrowed under the blankets once her fever broke. I'd had to let a fever go untreated but I guess keeping her cool is possible given it's summer and we can run the air. Thanks for the info about the meds, the other site did not warn me they can't be taken together! Yes she is the naked rat..... Should she show any improvement from the pred, or will it just hopefully slow things down??

I live on a fixed budget and had a big expense coming up this month, can anyone give me an estimate of the dollar amount of the meds that I'd need if I were able to get her in? The only rat doc around here who I trust is on vaca this week.

Taking ideas for liquidy foods... does something like gravy count as food? She's been loving the liquidy yogurt, she licks it off the spoon. Seems earlier in the day she doesn't have as much of an appetite. i did put some cereal in with her and it looks like she has use of one hand to hold the cereal and eat it.
 
Also I just want to say I'm making effort, and whether I have the money for the treatment isn't a choice. I'm hoping to get an idea what the treatment costs because if I don't have the money I don't have a choice, do I? I can't find these meds on petmeds to even get an idea, and on regular pharmacy sites it still won't tell me much as I don't know how far doses will go in a rat. If someone could help with that I'd appreciate it. I've been up every 4 hours the last two days, I'm making an effort.
 
Vets charge differently and some places are more expensive then others.
You will need to phone a good vet experienced in treating rats and find out.
Some meds can also come from pharmacies by a prescription from your vet
 
I understand that. So nobody will give me any idea of what I"m looking at? The vets around here are shady. I won't get an estimate until I bring in where they'll most likely tell me to put her to sleep. They won't know unless I tell them, and if these are not normally pet meds there's no other way for me to get an idea. I know the prednisolone is cheap. I'm not understanding the hesitance at even giving an estimate. I'm going through hell feeling horrible about this rat and won't know until next week if I can even help her unless someone will just give me some sort of estimate or range.
 
The vet will charge you an exam fee, so whatever your vet normally charges will apply. My rat is getting 0.05ml of Dexamethasone every day, so 3ml will last almost two months. Ask your vet clinic how much. My rat is also getting 0.25mg of Cabergoline every three days. The tablets come in 0.5mg tabs, in a bottle of 8 tabs. Call your local pharmacy for a price. Bromocriptine is less expensive than the Cab but you have to give it daily and it is generally not as well tolerated. I'm not sure how much of that you would need.
Tylenol can be given with steroids because it is not an NSAID.
Don't panic if no one replies right away. Some of us are at work, y'know, or taking the dogs for a walk, or having supper (ie not at the computer)!
 
It is impossible to give you an estimate.
Your profile doesn't even say what country you are in, much less what city, province, or area.
Prices can vary greatly.

Dex shouldn't be too expensive
Bromo is reasonably affordable but is less effective then cabergoline and many rats can not tolerate the side effects
Cabergoline is more effective and better tolerated
but Bromo and cabergoline are only effective with certain types of pt

If you give her a steroid (such as pred or dex) you must also give her an antibiotic

pt is awful, if the tumour is slow growing, then a steroid can reduce the swelling and symptoms, giving some good quality time

Once symptoms are advanced and meds do not help, I have my rat humanely put to sleep (most vets do not know how to humanely put a rat to sleep so you would need to be present and make sure it is done right) see http://www.ratshackforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7652

Info on pt and meds:
http://ratguide.com/health/neoplasia/pituitary_tumor.php
http://ratguide.com/meds/central_nervous_system_drugs/bromocriptine_mesylate.php
http://ratguide.com/meds/central_nervous_system_drugs/cabergoline.php
http://ratguide.com/meds/endocrine_hormones/dexamethasone.php

http://www.rmca.org/Articles/dchart.htm

You may want to search on this forum for threads on pt by Godmother, Joanne, and lilspaz68
Godmother has had good results from using bromo, Joanne from using cabergoline
If you use bromo, Godmother or Lilspaz68 might be able to give you suggestions on minimizing Dallas' discomfort in taking the medication

I am very sorry that Dallas has pt

{{hugs}}
 
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Ok based on the info I could look everything up- I definitely think its do-able financially... She has shown improvement just from the prednisolone so I can't just give up. She's still not all there but she's definitely more active especially when being held (she never really liked being held). Hoping I can just tell my vet what needs to be done and she'll do it. clearly with the prednisolone helping this is the PT. I moved her out of the hospital cage to another cage that is also a smaller one but has bars. They aren't high enough that she could hurt herself if she crawls up them and falls, which is why I had her in a different cage before. A little more room and more like what she's used to so I hope as she does gain back some awareness she doesn't feel as confused. She's eating on her own mostly now, she still had use of one paw before the prednisolone and since then i've put things in her cage (a carrot for instance) and she's eaten them at some point. She isn't eating as much when I hand feed her but if she's eating on her own that makes sense. Stilldon't think she's drinking enough but she's still peeing....
 
soft foods may help keep her hydrated ... such as soaking her blocks in water to make mush, or giving her organic soy infant formula thickened with baby cereal.
Peas and melon (such as pieces of watermelon) will also help with hydration if she is able to handle them
 
It must be all the soft foods then that's all she was eating until last night. She seems to be eating on her own but if she won't drink i might have to go back to limiting what she eats to what i give her so that she's getting hydrated. or is that cruel? :.
 
It must be all the soft foods then that's all she was eating until last night. She seems to be eating on her own but if she won't drink i might have to go back to limiting what she eats to what i give her so that she's getting hydrated. or is that cruel? :.
I would not limit her food intake. A PT usually affects their eating and they lose weight, so that will just make things worse. Does she have a bowl of water or a bottle? Give her a bowl so it is easier for her to drink. I have never worried about them drinking. And they get lots of fluid from the soaked blocks.
 
As previously said,
do not limit her food intake, she needs all the food she is willing and able to eat.... she will get fluids by eating blocks made into mush, as well as the other foods I suggested
Rats need to eat frequently

A water dish that can not be upset is important - you will want at least 2 sources of water in her cage

I hope that you have her in a cage with her friends as being separated from them will stress her and depending on their personalities, they may help to take care of her
 
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I haven't limited it. I just give her as much as she seems interested in. She's still not drinking so I need as many suggestions on liquidy foods as possible. She refuses blocks, she's always refused them. She's still peeing some so she must be getting some hydration from what I'm giving her. Dallas is the last of our girls and I think I missed some of her symptoms, thinking that she was having a reaction to the deaths of her last cage mate. So she has been alone for the last couple of months. She was never super sociable so I didn't try to get a new cagemate for her, and I was really surprised at what seemed like her depression over the last loss. But that might have been the start of all this. Anyway, She isn't using the bowl or bottle of water. I try to syringe feed her but it's not nearly what she needs and that would really upset her if I even tried (60cc is what I read).
 
You could try baby food as well as it has fluid

but mush made from blocks and organic soy infant formula (thickened with baby cereal) will give her the nutrition she needs, as well as fluids

Hope she continues to improve
 
Today she's not doing as well :( Her skin (she's hairless) is starting to actually peel which hasn't happened before and it's discolored. She's consistently eating baby food and yogurt for me plus SOME of the food in her bowl, but I think I need to go back to feeding her myself every few hours. I don't know if they have "good days" and "bad days" with this or not, but I'm hoping I can get her through on the prednisolone until she gets into the vet Tuesday. She had shown so much improvement but while she is moving around more than she had been she can barely walk without falling over. Ugh :(
 
60 cc (60ml) seems like a lot of water anyway. My rats don't drink anywhere near that amount of water. (6 rats x 60ml = 360ml/ day! - bear in mind a cup is 250ml). Nope, not even close, so don't worry about that.
I hope she hangs on for you until tomorrow.
 
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