Kona - RIP 5/24/14

Discussion in 'Health & General Care' started by dspch911, May 1, 2014.

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  1. May 1, 2014 #1

    dspch911

    dspch911

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    There are a whole bunches of words I want to use right now, but there not appropriate for the forum.... Back in October I started a thread for Bumbles and Kona saying we had them on PT watch this is it.
    http://www.ratshackforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27975 I'm starting a new one since this will be just for Kona.......

    I got home from work today and the hubby said Kona wasn't acting right so I went to check on him and he was a bit lethargic and refused a yogie. His tail was slightly cool so I picked him up and noticed his front paws were red with what appears to be blood, but I didn't see any injuries on him so I just assumed he probably wiped some porphyfin off his face. He was a bit limp and just layed on my chest which isn't Kona like. When I put him on the fall he did walk around. When I checked him for a plug there was some white milky substance and his winky smelled "fishy" so I figured I found the problem - probably a UTI and had the hubby start baytril/doxy, since that is what we had on hand, and I went to bed since I had to be back at work in 6 hours.

    When I got up for work I gave him a yogie which he took in his mouth, but dropped it. Then he kept trying to pick it up from the hammock he was in - with his mouth - no attempts at all with his hands. He also ate it was his mouth only - not holding with his hands and dropping it often. I picked it up most times, only once did he hold it and that was with only one hand.

    I have no idea when we will be able to get him to the vet with our work schedules this week so I'm afraid we are going to lose valuable time. He just looks awful - he reminds me so much of Curley. Should we continue the baytril/doxy. We have pred at home, should we start that until we can get to the vet? Should we give it with the baytril/doxy or stop the abs.?

    I don't know if I can go through two PTs in a year!! :cry5:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2014
  2. May 1, 2014 #2

    dspch911

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    No improvement this am per the hubby. He took a piece of banana but only used his mouth and his still mopey.... (insert multiple censored words)
     
  3. May 1, 2014 #3

    temblabamomo

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    :(
    I'm sorry you are going through this with another of your boys. I would stay with antibiotics until he can see a vet, just on the off chance that it could be an ear infection (sounds unlikely).
    Sending Kona lots of warm vibes.
     
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  4. May 1, 2014 #4

    mamarat

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    Are these boys all siblings? I had 3 brothers out of 5 who got PT. Fingers crossed for your sweetie.
     
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  5. May 1, 2014 #5

    dspch911

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    Curley (pts w/PT) is the biological father of Bumbles (another one on watch w/the dull eyes), Kona (showing signs of PT & has had numerous fatty tumors), GMC (Myco & leg tumor), and Finn (pts w/kidney disease).

    I was afraid it would be hereditary.. :no:
     
  6. May 1, 2014 #6

    dspch911

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    He has an appointment tomorrow at 5pm, looks like he's coming to work with me. Its with the younger vet, so if need be I think I can strong arm him into the meds I'm asking for and if I really have to - I think I can take him down.... :lol7: I'm going to hold off on the pred for now since I don't want to jeopardize get the dex/bromo. I really am hoping for a simply UTI, but I highly doubt it. Damn PT! :cuss: I'm also going in armed with this so I can trade holistics for the steroids... http://www.ratshackforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4625 I'll give him both and start Bumbles on the holistics too.

    EDIT: I'm home from work now and he isn't any better - probably worse. I'm pretty sure he's blind. He still smells like he has a UTI, but he's not using his upper body. I turned to change some bedding since where he was laying was wet and he almost walked out of the cage. I turned back just in time to catch him. The baby cereal/ensure routine has started again and he is eating that. Honestly though I think helping him cross the bridge might just be the most loving thing to do especially since I know its a losing battle anyway. (Insert a whole bunch of censored words)
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2014
  7. May 1, 2014 #7

    mamarat

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    I know, PT sucks. I'm sorry.
     
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  8. May 2, 2014 #8

    Aida

    Aida

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    I am so sorry. :(
    I wish there was something I can say, but there isn't much.
    One thing I can say is stay strong and hopeful! Try with those meds, bromocriptine and pred is doing wonders for my Matilda as you know, and try something new to treat that UTI!
    You know how rats can sometimes turn around from near death to happy and bouncey, you owe it to yourself and your boy to give it a try, if he still has some strength left in him!
     
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  9. May 2, 2014 #9

    mehganxo

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    I'm so sorry you're going through this again. My positive thoughts and prayers are with you & your PapaRat, Kona and the whole gang of ratties.
     
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  10. May 2, 2014 #10

    dspch911

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    He's going so fast - this is crazy... I've was holding him and he was bruxing on and off, but not cause he was happy. He kept shaking his head and he is just so confused loking and limp. Its just Curley all over again and I think his face looks a bit swollen. I cannot get him to eat out of a dish anymore so I was finger feeding him and he licked about 3-4 finger tips of applesauce and then just seemed to completely forget what he was doing.

    I just don't know how this happened so quickly! I'm paranoid over these boys and give them something to hold everyday - I hold my breath when they don't hold it in their paws sometimes taking it away and giving it back until they hold it.... And damn their daddy for not taking action during the day when he noticed the change! :ranton:
     
  11. May 2, 2014 #11

    2Rats

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    I just hate reading this ....I know ALL the words you would like to use to describe how you feel about those %@#&^% PTs. Just makes you feel so helpless, I know. They are straight from hell & make our babies & our lives totally miserable!!!

    Sending all the positives vibes I can for Kona . . . :thewave::thewave:
     
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  12. May 2, 2014 #12

    Aida

    Aida

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    I'm so sorry. :(
    Just make it through tonight, little guy! And then you can see the vet!
     
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  13. May 2, 2014 #13

    dspch911

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    I'm feeling a little less deflated this morning and Kona is chilling in the lock room right now. Although the Deputy Chief thinks I should have him in the communications room with me. My partner would run out screaming though - all 6 foot plus 200 some pounds of him... :laugh2: I do have to admit I love making the men around here scream and run from little ratties... He was a bit more alert this morning, but walked through his ensure so he needed a quick wash up before work.

    If someone could give me a quick run down on how I need the medication distributed that would be helpful. I know the three to ask for dexamethasone and bromocriptine or cabergoline
     
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  14. May 3, 2014 #14

    dspch911

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    I'll start by saying that some of you may not agree with my choice of treatment plans, but I thought hard about it and I did what I felt was best for us and Kona. That being said this is where we stand. He is in late stage PT and is definitely blind in at least one eye. His kidney, liver condition is questionable since in the 9 hours I had him with me today at work he made one poop, not a pile, one sad poop and didn't look all that great and it was in hour nine. The fleece I had him on after 8 hours was barely damp. He is not eating or drinking unless I give him some baby food on my finger and he barely takes 3-4 fingertips of food before he's had enough - total he's had maybe and its a BIG maybe 1/2 tsp. He has limited response in all paws, but is still walking around. He is shaking his head a lot like something hurts or bothers him. UTI is still questionable, but he smells a bit better down there.

    So, here is our plan for now. We have chosen to give him metacam over prednisone, since as it was explained to me both will do the same thing only metacam will not compromise his immune system. He will remain on the baytril and doxy, but I chose for him to have the 7 day doxy shot so it would be one less syringe he would have to take. He is also being given the holistic Max's Formula suggested on a site here for PT and they will be looking into getting the other one suggest since they seem to work well together. http://www.ratshackforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4625 If he shows signs of improvement I will consider purchasing the cabergoline since it will be $250 for a month worth. I just could not see spending that kind of money on a medication that might or might not do anything.

    So that is where we are at this point. I did consider just helping him across the bridge and I was about to make that choice, but since this all hit only three days ago I regrouped and came up with the above.
     
  15. May 3, 2014 #15

    mamarat

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    Bromocriptine is a lot cheaper than Cabergoline here. Just letting you know in case you decide to treat him. When all else fails I've kept a rat on just Metacam at the end of his life. Hugs!
     
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  16. May 3, 2014 #16

    dspch911

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    He said he searched it through out the day and that was the cheapest he could find and both meds were about the same.
     
  17. May 3, 2014 #17

    Aida

    Aida

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    Good luck with your baby, and I am keeping you both in my thoughts. :(
     
  18. May 3, 2014 #18

    lilspaz68

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    OK you're right I won't agree with your treatment plan. Metacam is actually a lot harder on the kidneys than a steroid AND sadly metacam definitely does not do the same thing as a steroid. I have tried it a few times now with PT as well as ear polyps...the only thing that actually shrinks them is the steroid. With metacam you will see no real effect and you could lose him very quickly. With a dex injection (one or possibly 2 if he needs it 2-3 days later) and bromocriptine you will probably have a much better and safer result. As for bromo being the same price, all you do is get your vet to write you a script for bromocriptine, then call all your local pharmacies and find out which one is cheaper. My vet charges a lot more than my pharmacist. I was getting 25 pills for about $42.00 whereas I was paying $55 for 15 pills from my vet. You can shop around too :)
     
  19. May 3, 2014 #19

    hopefloats

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    I got mine from walgreens. For just under 40.00 for 7 pills.

    Who said the metacam does the same thing? It is such a weaker version of the concept that it would be like using aspirin for a surgery if that makes sense. I dont think metacam was ever shown to help in pt and metacam has it own risks in long term which can affect the liver. I have no problems with metacam for surgeries but long term or for more than a few days there are side effects that can come with it just as with pred. With an antibiotic the rats we have had on steroids never had a problem from a weaker immune system. Cobby was on it for almost a year on and off and never got worse from it. You can show my videos of gloria if it would help. I am sure shelagh has some really good videos of them.
     
  20. May 3, 2014 #20

    Aida

    Aida

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    Just a little afterthought:
    My vet quoted me around $300 a month for the bromo and the cabergoline, which I was told on here was an insane price. That's if you want the lab to compound and send it to you, yada yada. Bromocriptine is used often for people too, so if you call CVS, Wallgreen's, any pharmacy and just ask them for a price quote on bromocriptine tablets, they will gladly give you one with no issues at all. For 10 tablets I pay around $20 at CVS. They are technically supposed to last me a month, but it's more like 20 days. Still, it isn't bad.
     

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