Intros

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jorats

Loving rats since 2002.
Joined
Jul 20, 2007
Messages
45,196
Location
Northeastern Ontario
REVISION!
I have been loving rats since 2002 and have had the pleasure to know over 300 rats who have come through our doors here with either myself or my close family.
I have done countless intros with all kinds of different rats from different backgrounds. All our rats are rescues and some have come from neglect or abuse. But luckily, rats live in the moment not the past and not the future.
When doing intros, you have to be patient and respectful of each rat. I no longer flip them because I am not meant to be their alpha as I am human. But I can parent them gently but firmly. We do not tolerate any biting. When a rat bites, either humans or rats, they will get neutered. Neutering helps all rats overcome their strong emotions ruled by hormones and stress.


Intros are one of the most asked question. So I thought we could all post our experiences. I've done tons of intros and here's what works for me:

When I do intros and it's with already stressed out rats, then I try a neutral place that could seem scary to all rats. A place that has new smells and sounds, somewhere they've never been before.
For me that would be the tub.
The thing I've noticed with rats is that even though intros might have went bad in the past, it's still not the end of it. You may need to step back and try again a month later. The important thing, have food available to distract them. No toys, no boxes, just a plate of food like pablum or yogurt, something that will force them to be beside each other to eat.
Have a towel handy so if a fight starts, you can throw it on them and separate the aggressor. Then put him back. Rubbing their backs, rumps, boxing, hissing are all normal part of meeting each other. It's when there's a fight with blood you need to stop and try again at a later date. If all goes well with a week of these intros, then you add toys, boxes, hidey holes, some with their scent on it of both parties. If all goes well there, then you proceed to intros in familiar surroundings where they usually go for out time. If all goes well there for a week, then you scrub down the cage and put them in and watch them for a day. This is what works for me.
With rats that are not so stressed out, you can usually skip the scary place intro, go straight to the neutral intro, if all goes well, within three days, you skip to familiar place intro, if all goes well within a couple of days, then you can go straight to scrubbing down the cage and putting them in.
Intros between females are usually the easiest. My hardest intros were always between males, sometimes you need to have the male neutered to help him deal with all his hormonal stress.
 
Yay... Intros 101! LOL

I tried plopping my girls in an empty bathtub before, which stressed them out supremely. Should I try doing an intro in a tub still? Or should I find a less stressful but still entirely new place.

My problem is that there aren't too many safe places in this house where my older girls haven't already been.
 
I've only done two intros before, but the second one was difficult so I'll post it.
The first intro I tried was with two male babies and two male adults. It was very easy. I used Jorat's method above, ecxept used the kitchen table instead of the tub. Within a few days they were all living in the same cage.
The second intro I tried was with one adult male (Irwin) to my four adult males, all un-neutered.
I introduced them all in a hallway where no one had been before. All the boys pretty much ignored Irwin and huddled together, tentatively exploring and eating some peas after a few minutes. Eventually, Irwin did eat peas with them. There were no fights, but the boys weren't showing any interest in Irwin.
Everything went like this for about a week when Irwin started showing signs of dominance. Puffed fur, sidling, mounting, rubbing his side against the wall. If the other boys approached him, he would squeak and jump up in the air and huff and puff. There were still no fights or blood though, however no one seemed to like him very much, especially the alpha who would avoid him.
I continued the hallway intros, and Irwin started to get along with the younger rats, and begrudgningly accepting a few sniffs from the older rats.
So I decided to try intros in an area they were used to playing. Everything went smoothly for a few days. Irwin never attempted to pick a fight with the older boys, and got along well with the younger boys.
However, the non-alpha older boy began following Irwin around ceaselessly. Eventually a fight took place between them, and the alpha got involved too, and Irwin came out unscathed while the two hairless boys came out with deep bites and scratches. This fight happened after several weeks of succssesful intro's! After that, Irwin began picking fights with them, and I had to seperate them every time. Failure!
So I made a vet appt. and Irwin was neutered a couple weeks later. I waited about six weeks after the neuter to try intros again. Back out in the hallway. The change in Irwin was quite dramatic, he showed no signs of dominance, and even wriggled underneath the alpha and they snuggled together with their eyes closed for a while.
So I continued the hallway intros as before, everything was fine, so I tried the play room again. And everything was fine for a while, just like before, until one day I found Irwin with blood running down his leg. ( I left them a minute to go to the bathroom. :roll:) I checked for injuries on the other boys and found none.
After that mishap, Irwin tensed up again and refused to be approached by the older rats, who followed him around endlessly, acting all big and tough. Poor Irwin, however, was meek as a lamb and being bullied, but still refused to let the others flip him over on his back or groom him. He would squeak and run away.
By now I had been attempting intros for a total of three months. Over two months after Irwin's neuter, it was still failing.
I had to halt intros for a few weeks because we were moving again. After we moved, I took advantage of the completely new area to try a different tactic with intros. Their new playroom had yet to be played in, and was scent free. So, I took away their cages, toys, and dishes, put some lab blocks on a plate and water in a bowl, plunked a cheap Ikea wood framed couch in there for somewhere to sleep and climb, and added rats.
I supervised them all day. In a few hours, I witnessed Irwin being flipped on his back and groomed by the alpha. He and his nemesis Patrick (the second in command) stood on their legs and had a completely normal boxing session just like I've seen Patrick and his alpha littermate Oliver do lots of times. It ended with Patrick gently subduing Irwin onto his side and holding him there for a while. Even the two young boys took a turn at dominating Irwin! *aaahhhhhhhhhh*
By midnight everyone was relaxed and getting along, so I felt it was safe to leave them in there for the night.
The next morning, Irwin was snuggled in the midst of a sleeping rat pile.
I let them live in the room for three weeks together before I added the big cage, empty of everything, for them to explore. The next week I added hammocks and toys and everything, and they all climbed eagerly inside. I left the doors wide open, and the next morning there was Irwin, cuddling in the igloo with his ex-nemesis Patrick. And they've all been living together since.
If anyone has any comments about it, I'd love to hear them, because it was my first tough intro and maybe things didn't have to be as hard as they were if I had tried something else or done something differently.
 
moon said:
Yay... Intros 101! LOL

I tried plopping my girls in an empty bathtub before, which stressed them out supremely. Should I try doing an intro in a tub still? Or should I find a less stressful but still entirely new place.

My problem is that there aren't too many safe places in this house where my older girls haven't already been.

If you've got nice sweet rats, then skip the whole "scary intro place". Choose a neutral place but not scary... like the bed or the top of a table.
 
Thank goodness, this comes before I have to do it and I don't have to ask.

So I will do the intros on the bed. As all of my girls seem sweet...

Glad to have this and I want to hear everyones stories.
 
So I tried to just let Rose get over being with the new baby, Willow, but she ended up putting teeth marks in her back and scratched her rear all up.

I am very thankful that Willow is very outgoing and does not let it affect her additude as soon as Rose went away she went to grooming herself and pop corning around my hand.

I am going to try introducing just the two of them in the tub tonight maybe Rose will be a little nicer this time (but I doubt it)Rose is relentless about attacking her.

Willow got a little beat up by some of the other girls but they are just putting the youngster in her place, they are not near as mean as Rose.

Everyone seemed to be in a bad mood last night, Ivy and Lilly were both in heat so they were just vibrating around everytime someone tounched them. Flower and Clover just wanted to be held and left to nap and Rose well Rose was Rose.

In order to let everyone else get used to Willow I put Rose in Willow's tank, I wonder if I should do that? I thought maybe if she got used to her smell in there she might ease up on her. My FN gets in on Thursday and Lilly and Ivy go in for tumor surgery on Friday, so I have my hands full. But I am hoping that maybe once I get the new cage set up Rose will be to occupied to even notice Willow.
 
I had Lilly and Scarlet in one cage. They were my first and third rats. They were good ole pals. Then I got Ruby. She was by herself only a short time. When my other 2 girls, Jazzy & GG grew big enough so as to not get out of the wire cage holes, I put them together. So I did the intro in the tub. Their cages had been next to each other in the same room during this time. I put Jazzy GG & Ruby together. After Scarlet passed, I put Lilly in. She seemed to be the girl that got the end of the stick...for a little while and then Ruby settled down some. She was the alpha rat. They lived nicely together. Ok, now I have Jazzy by herself and I got another rattie girl. I've alread intro'd them in the tub, it went fine. I cleaned the large cage out and let Branwen in it (Jazzy's cage) and put Jazzy in Branwen's cage. Then I let Jazzy and Branwen in the large cage and all seemed ok, until about 5 mins and I heard them scabble and they kind of came down the ramp quickly. I don't think they rolled down, but they did get my attention. I removed Branwen. I didn't an intro just now again, this time in the rat room they played in Jazzy's large cage. All seems well. I have Jazzy on my shoulder right now and Branwen in investigating in the large cage that Jazzy lives in. Now I am holding Branwen at the computer. I won't put them together just yet. I want to be able to stay in the room and observe for a long time before I do. I will scrub out the cage again and make some new hammocks and maybe move the wheel in a different location in the cage. Actually, I'd like to get a new cage from Martins. I would like to know when I can actually let them stay in the same cage. Their cages are next to each other and and when I'm in the room, I see them looking at each other...it's like they are saying, "I'm lonely and I wanna live with you".
 
I did my intro the Debbie Ducommon way, and have always thought this was best. In fact I only got the skinkids thinking I would have enough time to intro them before I move. I never saw this post but I am happy I've found it.

Technically I have never had a successful intro. Eli and Teddy's intro to Nanuk ended with a stressed out Nanuk. So I moved Nanuk to another cage where he lived out the rest of his days.

My intro that I began yesterday ended with a slashed Eli. And the skinkids both have battle scars. They were fine in the tub and in their play area but when they were in the big cage, the fight ensued. Currently Eli's in a recovery cage but I have a dilemma. I am supposed to move in a week and was only expecting to take one cage with me. I don't want to bring more than one cage to my landlady's house because I don't want her to say anything about the ratties.

I want Eli to be happy but he doesn't seem to like the naked boys. I will have to modify this intro process and hope for the best. But is there anything I can do to make this go better?
 
Any input on this situation will be much appreciated...
Ok so I currently have 2 intact males who are brothers (10 months). Max is clearly the dominant one but every once and a while Joey will give it back to him but most of the time Joey is a little sweetheart. Now nothing is for sure but I wanted to ask these questions before I do anything. I am considering another male rat (approx 1 year and I'm assuming intact) who has apparently lived alone (poor guy) and his current family doesnt want him anymore. They say he is very loving and kind. So I am just wondering what the chances are that this could work and they could all live together happily or if I should just leave my 2 boys as is because I really dont have space for another cage if things dont work. Does the fact that the new guy has lived alone all his life make any difference? Although I would be able to neuter the new guy if it came to that. Just need some help because I dont want to end up with 3 unhappy rats.
 
That's the big problem... you just don't know if it will work out. Sometimes it does go smoothly but other times might go very bad.
If you have enough money to have all three neutered if need be, then I'd say go for it but if you are not financially able to neuter all three or keep two separated cages, then I wouldn't recommend getting the third boy.
 
jorats said:
I myself don't quarantine but I highly recommend it for those that don't rescue. 2 to 3 weeks is usually the norm.

What would be the difference between rescue rats and say pet store rats that would change the need to quarantine?

I only wonder because i plan to get my next rat from a rescue and i want to know if i need to quarantine or not!
 
You should ALWAYS quarantine when possible.

I think what Jo meant is that people who are HEAVILY involved in rescue often can't quarantine because the rats are being pulled from an emergency situation.

You would be adopting, and you know ahead of time that you are adopting, so hopefully you can work out a quarantine situation :)
 
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