Introducing Rocko~ all 3 boys together pg 8

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Petunia

Petunia

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Nov 21, 2009
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Still haven't settled on a name for the new boy, formerly called Rocko. For now I'm mostly calling him Buddy.
Who knows, that may stick :giggle:


I got all three sleepy boys up and plopped them in the tub with a bowl of peanut butter and almond milk flavored baby cereal.

I got the first minute or so on tape- where I made a mistake petting the guys randomly and being distracted trying to set up the camera.
Buddy and Norry got into it but it was broken up quickly.
You can see that just before the video ends. I just watched again and it looks like Norry did a little marking (that hind leg scratching his side thing, you know?) just before this happens, but I think what set it off was me, with my hand in the middle of them getting them confused and nervous.
I didn't make that mistake again, and they were pretty calm for the rest of the session.

http://youtu.be/1O6rQdUf8Mc

Buddy is very confident, here I was thinking he was gonna be scared of Dre and Norry since he's always lived alone
oh noooo
Poor Dre and Norry are terrified of him.
They spent most of the time huddled up against the side of the tub, Norry draped over Dre to protect him.

Buddy approached them many many times, sniffed them, walked over them, groomed them a couple of times just a little bit and fairly gently. Buddy sniffed Norry's ears quite a bit, makes me wonder if I shouldn't check them out to see if there's something going on LOL


I thought I was recording most of the session but it turns out the camera froze and I only got the worst few minutes of the whole session

nothing even close to that happened after ward

Buddy wandered around, sniffed a lot, checked on the cowering Norry and Dre and that was about it
Buddy did some loud teeth chattering. not sure what that was about. he was not puffy at the time


they all puffed up a bit from time to time but not bad. Not ratball puffy, just the nervous puffy.

Buddy did some marking here and there but nothing frantic, just kind of matter of fact, this towel is mine, kind of thing LOL

so, what do you think?

at the very end Norry and Dre moved around a bit and Buddy was ok with that. but then Buddy got tired and laid down and I couldn't spend any more time on my knees so I ended the session.

same place next time? and for longer?
what exactly is the reason for trying to go as long as you can, if I knew, I' ve forgotten

oh now I need a nap LOL
that was stressful
I was so sure that the new boy who has always been alone was gonna be scared of my guys,
never expected that my sweet boys would be scared of him.
I'm a bit disappointed and would even be sad for them, but I saw some subtle signs that lead me to believe that they will get along at some point. Dre would love a guy to play with, I think. Norry is such a couch potato, and Dre wanders around looking bored when Norry takes his frequent naps. it would be awesome if he can play wiht Buddy. Buddy is a very active guy.
his moms said he was between 1/ 12 and 2 but he's more active than Norry and Dre who are just about a year old.
 
Intros! YAY! I LOVED doing my intros with my four boys. Jorats is the best at them! Especially with boys! But from what I see in the video that you posted, Norry/Dre starts to sidle Buddy, then kind of mounts him and that caused Buddy to freak out.

I tried to wrap my head around rat behaviour and dominance displays before starting intros. I read EVERYTHING I could find. I found this a good straightforward list of behaviours, http://www.rattyrat.com/guidebook/language.html

You should also watch Jorats youtube videos of her intros with intact boys. It helped me a lot to understand what the normal progression of behaviour is. I found during my research everywhere just said neuter and you will be fine! Or introducing males and females! But I couldnt find info on introducing intact boys. Here is the first of eight videos. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_L-gGI5ZcA

Here is the thread about my intros. Although my intros were pretty uneventful, and only after I think three uneventful intros were all four boys living together, I was given a lot of amazing information. http://www.ratshackforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=34999

Keep at it Petunia! You can do it!
 
oh thank you for your feedback and the links on more infor and link to your thread too

after my nap (whew, I am really worn out LOL) I'll go over all that, thanks

yeh it's weird that first bit of activity was the most they interacted for the whole time out.

after that Norry and Dre were more or less frozen in one spot, with Norry draped over his brother Dre.

ok I need that nap now, I'm falling asleep sitting up LOL
 
Your welcome. I dont really know how to help you beyond giving you some of the tools that helped me. I often use the my hand to try and dominate a boy who is misbehaving or causing trouble. I think Jorats explains it well in her videos.

Be patient, and dont loose hope. It seems like Buddy wants to be friends with Norry and Dre. Maybe he is just unsure how to make new friends.

My four were a piece of cake during intros, but then once in the cage we had some little scuffles that freaked me out. (I was lucky that Lilspaz and Crumbilina were over at my house and we did it together and I had their experience with me, and they were able to help me a lot and explain what was happening). Our littlest guy Nai kept getting cornered and he would get scared and freak out causing whoever had cornered him to freak out too. It was very interesting to me. It was very much a chain reaction. No one had started a fight per say, and it never got bad. But all it took was one rat being uncomfortable to start a chain reaction with the others. But his brother Mokey was always there once he cried out. Which was the most amazing thing to watch. Know that Norry and Dre will be there for each other.

I did one intro a day, but I think you go with your gut on that one. Try to take more videos or even pictures.

Have a nap, and keep us all posted. Facebook me if you want, I will be home most of the day.
 
That looked like a really good first intro, to me! If that is the worst it ever is, behavior wise, then I'd say they will become very good friends. There are going to be a few scuffles at first, because they need to decide who the boss is! It seemed like Buddy freaked at the end because one of your other boys was trying to mount him. When my rats do that to each other, they scream like that, too... but no one is ever actually getting hurt. They can be such babies sometimes. :emb:
 
That looked like it went quite well for a first intro, I hope they will all be friends in the near future. Good luck, I look forward to hearing about their progress.
 
Yep, next time, don't pet a mounting rat. lol Norry is your alpha... by the way, the siamese twin's markings are shockingly gorgeous!
From your description, it sounds like it went ok. How long are your sessions? I'd do them at least 20 minutes... longer is better and remember to end on a good note.
 
thanks everyone!


jorats said:
[highlight=#ffffbf:2rv82626]Yep, next time, don't pet a mounting rat[/highlight:2rv82626]. lol Norry is your alpha... by the way, the siamese twin's markings are shockingly gorgeous!
From your description, it sounds like it went ok. How long are your sessions? I'd do them at least 20 minutes... longer is better and remember to end on a good note.
Click to expand...


I know, really! I was distracted trying to set up the camera.

this was the first session and they were in there for at least a half an hour, maybe as long as 40 mins.
I took them out when "Buddy" was settling in for a nap, at that time Norry was still draped over Dre and they had stayed in the same spot for quite a long time.

I'm about to get them all out again but will be using a table top this time, because it's just too hard on my knees and back to have them in the tub. I have to keep a closer eye on the new guy cuz it looks like he might try to jump off- when he's out of the cage he just wants to explore. I get the feeling he wasn't taken out very much at all.

I probably won't bother with the camera this time. It's too distracting. I don't have any cheerios so I think I'll make them some pasta, who doesnt' love pasta? :giggle:
 
Wow, it went incredibly well! the biggest problem I had was keeping Dre and Buddy from climbing off the table and onto me- I think they are my Mumma's boys LOL
they both wanted to be with me, but not until after Buddy mounted Dre, and Dre, who was pressed up against Norry at the time, butt to head and head to butt,
Dre just let him.
Then he sat there for maybe less than a minute, and got up and looked relaxed and went about his way checking things out.

Sadly I didn't notice til they'd been out for a few minutes that Norry had a belly ache.
I gave them all salad yesterday with a bit red pepper and a bit of cucumber. They've never had cucumber before, and I don't think I'll be giving it to them again, at least for sure not the same time I give them red bell peppers (which they love)

Norry and Dre have very sensitive stomachs.

It went so well I did end up getting some of it on video. There's a couple things that happened that I"d like you guys' opinions on.

There was one brief moment where Buddy was leaning up against Norry and he BOGGLED! do they ever boggle for any other reason than being happy? I know they can brux in anger or pain, but what about boggling? isn't that always a happy thing?

I don't want to get too excited but it seems like Buddy really likes his new buddies :heart: :heart: :heart:

Buddy tried to go under Norry a couple of times, so you're right Jo, Norry is alpha. It seems sometimes Norry lets Dre play alpha though, I don't know- when they are out running around, it's usually Dre pinning Norry to power groom him but I guess that's probably more play than anything else eh?

ok the video is uploading now, there's a couple of clips because the camera freezes sometimes.
You can see that Norry is in pain, he's got his eyes squinty and he's laying down a lot, he's the only one who pooped and he pooped a lot and then they all walked thru it and made a mess, :sick2: I'm not sure if that's on the video or not but at one point I was gagging LOL and had to run to wash my hands.

the only one who ate any pasta was Buddy. Dre mostly wanted to snuggle up with me after he endured being mounted by Buddy and Buddy wanted to come up to me too, but he kept going back to Norry and either laying up beside him, or gently sticking his nose under him, or sniffing his nose and sometimes his tail. he seemed quite intrigued by Norry.
Norry finally seemed to feel better after the last big poop and did get up and walk normally for a bit.
They all are back in their cages (Dre and Norry in the CN and Buddy in the spare cage on top of that) and Norry was walking normally and Buddy was climbing the bars, wanting to come back out and play LOL
he seems a lot younger to me than they said he was. either that or he's just been so bored he can't bear to spend any time in a cage.

Is it ok to let Buddy out in the play room (where both cages are) with Norry and Dre in there, or do I have to move the CN out of the room? (so far that is what i've been doing but it would be easier for me to block off the CN with coroplast and let Buddy have the rest of the room)

also is it a bad thing to do more than one session per day? I was thinking of trying this again later when they (when WE :giggle: ) are all more awake.
 
Awwww!!! If I didn't know that this was you doing intros, I would assume it was just a regular play time because they seem pretty darn comfortable together.
 
Whooohooo! I don't see why you couldn't let buddy out to play. See how it goes and decide from there.

Let other comment on this too, but you may be able to do the next intro with toys or in a more common area.
 
I can't wait to watch these but I'm heading to work soon, will have to wait, but I did want to say to go ahead and let Buddy play in the play area even though Norry and Dre live there.
 
OK as usual I"m going back and forth on names, thought I had a good one picked out but it turns out it makes me sad, thinking of the friends rat who had that name who has passed away

so we're back to the drawing board on names.

hopefully he'll tell me his new name

I have a couple of questions about how to proceed, I"m pretty sure I know what to do but just want to run it by the experts/folks with the most experience

I haven't done todays session yet because I"m very sore and tired, feeling a bit like I"m coming down with something and I want to be sure I'm very alert for this.

While I am fairly confident these guys are going to get along I see signs of trouble to come

Dre is very possessive of certain spots in the play room, and I've seen the new guy mark some of those spots with great abandon. Dre has already puffed up at the new boy's scent on his favorite things, so..........!!

Since the play area that they have is so large (basically an entire room that has to be at least 12 by 12, maybe 12 by 14?) I am thinking that I'll need to cut the play area down into sections and only let them have a section of it at a time

that way they can work out their issues a tiny bit at a time, rather than have them have to deal with so much stuff all at once.

so, today we're still doing neutral territory, the table top but with a toy or two
as much as I can see these guys want to be together I'm still thinking its best to take it slow and not skip any steps


what do all you more experienced folks think?
take it slow, and let them have smaller areas then add more space?

I'm looking at next week as the earliest they'll actually share a cage- maybe by mid week.
I really don't want to risk any injuries since none of these 3 had the best starts in life and may just need more time to learn how to get along


they surely seem to want to be friends but I think they are still going to need the time to work things thru
in fact I think they may need the slower steps even more because they are so eager to be with each other

they are all intact boys, after all. :giggle:
 
intro day 3 went so well I'm pinching myself, I don't believe this is for real

they were out on the table for about 50 mins or so and during that time, all three rats boggled (not at the same time though)
I got two of them boggling on video
I couldn't get Dre, as he was tucked underneath Norry

It will take a long time for the videos to upload, they are long ones, and I don't know if any one will have the time to watch them anyway

so I'll just give you the basics- there was no fighting, extremely little puffiness from anyone
New guy stuck his nose under Norry but he also walked OVER Norry and peed on his head several times
does that mean he's trying to become alpha?
and if so, why did Norry let him?
Norry didn't move. he just lay there draped over Dre
New guy groomed both Norry and Dre, he groomed Norry the most though
New guy ate most of the corn, Norry and Dre only nibbled.
they shared the two toys I put out without any issues at all.

I'm just amazed. I feel like maybe I am missing something, I mean does it ever go this smoothly with three intact males?

here is one video, there's boggling going on in this one =)
but not a whole lot else, the boys just snuggle together
http://youtu.be/mAP1O-8OyoE
 
ACK! I knew I was going to forget to come back to the video. So I watched the newest one first, wow, lovely boys.

Slow is good because all these sessions are forcing the boys to bond. New guy...could be named Chief or Boss. Cause he's claiming alpha and Norry is perfectly fine with that. How old is New Guy? The more I see him in the vids, the more it feels like he's quite young, like 12 months old is not maybe even 10 months old. Can I get a pic of his feet, underneath?

You are wise to think it would be best to break up the play room into sections because it's far too big to force them to interact. That's the whole reason of putting them together so they interact during play time before the move in.

It's looking really really good!

edited to add...OMG, I nearly died when I heard the Pet Shop Boys. Gosh, I miss the 80s music so much.
 

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