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R
Rinrei
Guest
No obvious improments as of right now. He is peeing more on his own and really not cooperative with me helping him with it. He still drinking little more than normal and eating fine. I'll up his veggie intake.
I do notice a more heavier breathing though. Chest breathing not stomach breathing, no sounds coming from him, or open mouth breathing. Can metacam or baytril do that to a rat? He has always been a heavy breather even at a young age. Didnt know if those 2 can trigger anything. I looked up the side effects. Didnt see anything on that line.
I do notice a more heavier breathing though. Chest breathing not stomach breathing, no sounds coming from him, or open mouth breathing. Can metacam or baytril do that to a rat? He has always been a heavy breather even at a young age. Didnt know if those 2 can trigger anything. I looked up the side effects. Didnt see anything on that line.
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R
Rinrei
Guest
New Update.
His rear end/ back legs is tensing up... I've tried to help him pee. His bladder doesnt seem very full from the feel of it. Everytime I try its only a small amount. Him peeing by himself is probably a small spoon amount at the present time. Maybe he is trying to pass the stones?
His condition and attitude aren't right though. He is becoming almost aggressive. He bit my bf when he tried to give him his morning meds and normally he takes medicine like a champ. Not brake skin but he is bitting. I've uped his chew toys.
I'm chalking all of that to discomfort even on pain meds right now.
His breathing is my main concern. Not moving as much as he was yesterday and every small move is tiring him out.
Vet is closed now. I'll call in the morning and ask their opinion.
His rear end/ back legs is tensing up... I've tried to help him pee. His bladder doesnt seem very full from the feel of it. Everytime I try its only a small amount. Him peeing by himself is probably a small spoon amount at the present time. Maybe he is trying to pass the stones?
His condition and attitude aren't right though. He is becoming almost aggressive. He bit my bf when he tried to give him his morning meds and normally he takes medicine like a champ. Not brake skin but he is bitting. I've uped his chew toys.
I'm chalking all of that to discomfort even on pain meds right now.
His breathing is my main concern. Not moving as much as he was yesterday and every small move is tiring him out.
Vet is closed now. I'll call in the morning and ask their opinion.
RatsDrawBlood
Active Member
DE-toxify, BALANCE ph in ENTIRE body, dissolve AWAY damage of built-up CHEMICALS from drugs, bad VEGGIES & dry rat FOOD nutrients, using ACV:
SO happy for him that this is the illness it did turn out to be rather than something my friends & I would be worried about in our pets. Hope he's enjoying finally having in his diet what all rats are said to need.
MELON BRIGADE TO THE RESCUE:
PINEAPPLE THE KNIGHT IN SHINING ARMOR:
IT'S A FRUIT ... IT'S A VEGGIE ... IT'S ... WHO CARES WHAT YOU CALL CUCS WHEN THEY MAKE YOU ABLE TO PEE OUT THE POISONS THAT OVERFLOWED INTO YOUR LEG EVEN:
CRANBERRY THE HEALER WE ALL KNEW BEFORE WE LOOKED THEM UP:
Hopefully whoever's in the situation this rat was originally, and vets attempting to treat it legally, will do a search so that they read about what things they need to look up on this so common fluid build-up (in the original journals, which don't copy/paste the typos to form 99%), though my friends haven't bothered yet, because it's food, which we're all told to eat daily regardless, & because it kept them from having to bother with one of those potentially deadly vet mistake visits. Whereas the pets that did go to the vet but didn't die are the ones that got their dietary requirements of having enough of what's in many fruit products, also available in pill & liquid form. Yay!
"People with kidney stones, particularly calcium stones, should avoid oxalate-rich foods. Oxalate is a naturally occurring substance that causes crystals to develop in urine, should there be a high concentration of this substance and not enough liquid to dilute it. However, the magnesium in other vegetables prevents calcium from combining with kidney stone-causing oxalate. Do not take calcium in supplements (or an additive component of enriched foods) as that binds calcium with oxalate once in the stomach and intestines prior to moving to the kidneys. Eat calcium-rich foods to allow oxalate to leave the body and prevent kidney stone formation. Make sure to get vitamin D3 and K2 alongside your calcium as not having important cofactors, and failing to supply these two other vitamins, can prompt excess calcium build up. Limit protein as uric acid levels increase from some proteins. Also protein lowers levels of citrate, a chemical in urine that prevents stone formation. Added sugars, particularly fructose, upset mineral relationships, disrupt calcium and magnesium absorption and lead to kidney stone formation. Apple cider vinegar, watermelon, and, as long as in moderate amounts, cherries, organic apples and red or purple grapes, and vital fatty acids like avocados and coconut are a must."
"Oxalate is a compound produced by the body, as well as absorbed from the diet. It is a known promoter of urinary stone formation. If your 24-hour urine collection revealed high levels of oxalate, cut back on high-oxalate foods."
"Beets are high in oxalic acid which causes urinary crystals to form. These cause urinary tract problems and stones in the kidneys and bladder due to their extremely high levels of oxalates.":
View attachment 10916
"Due to the high levels of oxalates, spinach can cause urinary tract problems and stones in the bladder and kidneys.":
View attachment 10917
"Lentils are a significant source of oxalate and purines, two natural substances that people with a history of kidney stones need to limit. Individuals prone to calcium-oxalate (kidney stones) are advised to avoid specific high-oxalate foods, including spinach and wheat bran, and limit other high-oxalate foods, including lentils. People who are susceptible to uric-acid (kidney stones) should consume a low-purine diet because purines are metabolized to form uric acid. Apr 6, 2018":
Enjoy!
SO happy for him that this is the illness it did turn out to be rather than something my friends & I would be worried about in our pets. Hope he's enjoying finally having in his diet what all rats are said to need.
MELON BRIGADE TO THE RESCUE:
PINEAPPLE THE KNIGHT IN SHINING ARMOR:
IT'S A FRUIT ... IT'S A VEGGIE ... IT'S ... WHO CARES WHAT YOU CALL CUCS WHEN THEY MAKE YOU ABLE TO PEE OUT THE POISONS THAT OVERFLOWED INTO YOUR LEG EVEN:
CRANBERRY THE HEALER WE ALL KNEW BEFORE WE LOOKED THEM UP:
Yes exactly, be sure to lower his intake of the veggies that are said to cause this (& complications, like stones dislodged too early for him to survive it) to zero (till better), WHILE raising his intake of the fruits including cucs that are said to prevent the worsening of this that in turn's said to result from being on drugs, which are contraindicated for 2 reasons, there's no evidence of infection, pain or inflammation, & the pH that's starting to melt him (from getting no variety in the types of proteins in his regular food) is like sulfuric acid. Chemicals. Drugs.
Hopefully whoever's in the situation this rat was originally, and vets attempting to treat it legally, will do a search so that they read about what things they need to look up on this so common fluid build-up (in the original journals, which don't copy/paste the typos to form 99%), though my friends haven't bothered yet, because it's food, which we're all told to eat daily regardless, & because it kept them from having to bother with one of those potentially deadly vet mistake visits. Whereas the pets that did go to the vet but didn't die are the ones that got their dietary requirements of having enough of what's in many fruit products, also available in pill & liquid form. Yay!
"People with kidney stones, particularly calcium stones, should avoid oxalate-rich foods. Oxalate is a naturally occurring substance that causes crystals to develop in urine, should there be a high concentration of this substance and not enough liquid to dilute it. However, the magnesium in other vegetables prevents calcium from combining with kidney stone-causing oxalate. Do not take calcium in supplements (or an additive component of enriched foods) as that binds calcium with oxalate once in the stomach and intestines prior to moving to the kidneys. Eat calcium-rich foods to allow oxalate to leave the body and prevent kidney stone formation. Make sure to get vitamin D3 and K2 alongside your calcium as not having important cofactors, and failing to supply these two other vitamins, can prompt excess calcium build up. Limit protein as uric acid levels increase from some proteins. Also protein lowers levels of citrate, a chemical in urine that prevents stone formation. Added sugars, particularly fructose, upset mineral relationships, disrupt calcium and magnesium absorption and lead to kidney stone formation. Apple cider vinegar, watermelon, and, as long as in moderate amounts, cherries, organic apples and red or purple grapes, and vital fatty acids like avocados and coconut are a must."
"Oxalate is a compound produced by the body, as well as absorbed from the diet. It is a known promoter of urinary stone formation. If your 24-hour urine collection revealed high levels of oxalate, cut back on high-oxalate foods."
"Beets are high in oxalic acid which causes urinary crystals to form. These cause urinary tract problems and stones in the kidneys and bladder due to their extremely high levels of oxalates.":
View attachment 10916
"Due to the high levels of oxalates, spinach can cause urinary tract problems and stones in the bladder and kidneys.":
View attachment 10917
"Lentils are a significant source of oxalate and purines, two natural substances that people with a history of kidney stones need to limit. Individuals prone to calcium-oxalate (kidney stones) are advised to avoid specific high-oxalate foods, including spinach and wheat bran, and limit other high-oxalate foods, including lentils. People who are susceptible to uric-acid (kidney stones) should consume a low-purine diet because purines are metabolized to form uric acid. Apr 6, 2018":
Enjoy!
R
Rinrei
Guest
Morning update before work.
He's definitely more active right now as I watch him. Just wish his bresthing would calm down a bit. Gave him some food and water. Had to clean his penis this morning... He had a bad plug buildup since yesterday. I'll have to show the bf how to check for that as well now
He's definitely more active right now as I watch him. Just wish his bresthing would calm down a bit. Gave him some food and water. Had to clean his penis this morning... He had a bad plug buildup since yesterday. I'll have to show the bf how to check for that as well now
lilspaz68
Well-Known Member
Can I double check his metacam dose? The heavy breathing may be pain. A lot of vets underdose metacam so I always check. Do you have 1.5 mg/ml Metacam or 0.5 mg/ml? I'd need his weight, the concentration and what dose you were told to give. UTI'' hurt a lot but your treatment looks good. If his bladder is not full I wouldn't attempt to express it as it can cause internal damage if done wrong. No point chancing it if it's not full.
R
Rinrei
Guest
H
He is actually 980 grams according to his visit.
I'm not sure of the type and I cant check atm since I'm at work... but his dose is .64 twice a day.
I guess something to note is he also on Buphrenorphine? If I spelled that right? .07ml twice a day.
And baytril .5ml twice a day.
All medications for 7 days is what I was instructed. I know the B one can cause him to chew and want to eat is what the doctor told me to look out for.
He is actually 980 grams according to his visit.
I'm not sure of the type and I cant check atm since I'm at work... but his dose is .64 twice a day.
I guess something to note is he also on Buphrenorphine? If I spelled that right? .07ml twice a day.
And baytril .5ml twice a day.
All medications for 7 days is what I was instructed. I know the B one can cause him to chew and want to eat is what the doctor told me to look out for.
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lilspaz68
Well-Known Member
OK his metacam dose works out for 1.5 mg/ml Metacam and is a good dose for it. Buprenorphine I am not a fan of myself, it makes them act very unlike themselves, glassy eyed and drugged up.
So you just need to get me the concentration of the baytril now that I have his weight.
For UTI's it can take 2-3 weeks on antibiotics to cure it. How long has he been on it now?
So you just need to get me the concentration of the baytril now that I have his weight.
For UTI's it can take 2-3 weeks on antibiotics to cure it. How long has he been on it now?
RatsDrawBlood
Active Member
EXACTLY. Buphrenorphine causes "respiratory distress and death".
R
Rinrei
Guest
So should I stop giving him the Buprenorphine? Or,should I drop his dose... I dont want him to be struggling to breath if he is already on a pain med.
Antibiotic is 20mg/ml
He started his meds on Monday this week.
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RatsDrawBlood
Active Member
Is he the black & white one or the tan & white one?
R
Rinrei
Guest
R
Rinrei
Guest
Day 3.5 update.
I spoke with the vet and they said to decress his Buprenorphine dose to .04 and see if that changes his attitude and his responses. His breathing still seems to act up but its at random for maybe 2-5 min at a time. Or when his brother messes with him.
I was only instructed for him to take his meds for 7 days. Idk if they will give me more? I dont feel like his UTI is clearing up quite yet. His pee still smells even if its not as strong its still really obvious. He is peeing pretty often and still wanting a decent amount of water. After the 7 days and it still being there shoud I ask for a different kind?
Still no improvement on walking. He doesnt wanna move (unless its to turn around) unless you pick his back end up and then he is super happy to go where ever his front paws want. Not very practical though. He is moving and stretching his back legs which he wasnt doing after all this started.
I spoke with the vet and they said to decress his Buprenorphine dose to .04 and see if that changes his attitude and his responses. His breathing still seems to act up but its at random for maybe 2-5 min at a time. Or when his brother messes with him.
I was only instructed for him to take his meds for 7 days. Idk if they will give me more? I dont feel like his UTI is clearing up quite yet. His pee still smells even if its not as strong its still really obvious. He is peeing pretty often and still wanting a decent amount of water. After the 7 days and it still being there shoud I ask for a different kind?
Still no improvement on walking. He doesnt wanna move (unless its to turn around) unless you pick his back end up and then he is super happy to go where ever his front paws want. Not very practical though. He is moving and stretching his back legs which he wasnt doing after all this started.
RatsDrawBlood
Active Member
I'm genuinely sorry if I'm bad at explaining (& I didn't know how bad I seem to be at explaining, until I saw what happened (or didn't happen) when I tried posting in this thread), but he didn't have a UTI so must not take antibiotic medication, didn't have inflammation so must not take anti-inflammatory medication, didn't have pain so must not take pain killers, & had what's easily made worse by drugs so must not take drugs unless mandatory.
He's not getting enough plug cleaning & famous home remedies, which must be done before seeing if vet treatment is needed. The diagnoses of the vet was just as I'd thought it would be. The prescription didn't match it.
I think the vet doesn't need to be one of the few who knows to do as I've researched, because I'm able to help someone locate the materials for showing to a vet, on points which the vet has missed. But probably I tried so hard to be understandable that I was anything but.
What I'm used to is, I attempt to bring to someone's attention the medical info that they're missing, & they tell me what doesn't make sense about why I'd say that, so that I can see the way in which I've made myself unclear, so that we could've gone back-n-forth, till I see the reason they don't do it is because they disagree, rather than because what I said sounded like something other than what I meant.
Instead I just saw the misconceptions pile on, till I stopped trying to point them out, on the last few backwards suggestions, since apparently no one wants to have a conversation in this day & age ... I still might, in case it's of interest to someone who sees this thread later.
To be perfectly frank, animal health is my hobby since the 70s & at least in my neck of the woods, the application of medicine hadn't strayed so far from it's own directives. Most of the information available & applied is illegal.
I find it not possible to keep up with whether laws prohibit, or require, freedom of speech or whatever you want to call it, so I hope admins/etc will feel free to edit/delete (what I've said about what I see) as they know fit.
I've saved a copy, for the next time a friend has an animal in this condition. I appreciate how forums give me the inspiration to write things, which get turned into articles (once fixed to be unrushed & professional).
I'm so happy to hear about his improvements, that's all that matters & I'm sure he'll be back to happily snuggling with his cagemate who by the way looks just like my 1st. Your pic is cool because where their white ends is aligned, as though they're one rat. Siamese-twins.
R
Rinrei
Guest
Some of your suggestions ive taken note of. The different options about foods and things to help keep him stay healthy.
I'm not sure where or what all of this wall of text is about but the reason I took my rat to the vet and started to give him medicine is because he was at a point where home remedies could of been to slow to help. Home remedies can take days. Orweeks to show a difference in the rat while medicine can be way quicker.
No reason for an admin to edit anything from you. Youve done nothing wrong and have stated what you feel would of been best for my rats recovery. Everyone has opinions wether they are right or wrong... But to say he doesnt have any pain, didnt have a UTI... Not sure why you would say that when you havent even seen him in person.
Maybe there is an issue with communication and how you are explaining things but thanks you for your input.
