How much food?

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I give my little girls a dry food mix Ibuy at the pet store, water off course, and "extra food" (fruits, vegetables, eggs ++) I'm really just wondering how much "extra food" I should give them?
Theyre both crazy about eggs, boiled chicken, corn and so on.. But how much should I give them per day?

Have read many places about people giving their ratties "snacks plates" with a mix of different treats, fruites ... :)
If they eat it all up, thats pretty much, isn't it?
 
Things that are high in protein like eggs and chicken should be given very sparingly. A good general guideline for high protein foods is on a daily basis a piece no bigger than a fingernail.
 
Alot of high protein foods can lead to your rats getting overweight. Things like chicken, tuna, and eggs should be saved for special treats, not an every day thing. Corn isn't a good every day treat either. You can definitely give fruits and vegetables, though.

You don't want to give them more than they can finish within a few hours. Not so much that they leave a good bit, and not so little that they finish it within a few minutes. It's really dependent on how old your rats are, how many there are, etc...

For my 3 girls I give them about 1/8 cup of fruit for breakfast. For dinner they get a combined 1/2 cup of vegetables and salad. Those are the amounts that work best for them.
 
My gang are on a strict diet. I don't give extras like that. They have their block and their daily veggies.
Protein should be kept at a very minimum as well as the fat too.
 
Ok, thanks:)

By the way, I've never thought about giving them lots of egg and things like that, if you thought that was what i was asking about;) I just used the term "extra food" as a way to explain..

I was just wondering how much to give them in addition to water and dry food. Like how much vegetables or fruit they should get each day. So that I can give them a good, stable diet.
 
Okay - this is something that really concerns me, too. I suspect in our newbie enthusiasm, we may be a little too generous when doling out dinner (or, I could be completely off the mark and not be feeding them enough :cry5:). Can one of you rattie gurus take a look at the following and let me know what you think? Do we need to ease up a bit? Do we need to be more generous?

So, here goes . . . We have three young boys (approximately 13 weeks of age). Currently, I am closely following the suggested menu plan, which is outlined on page 177 of Debbie Ducommun's book, entitled "Rats: Practical, Accurate Advice, etc., in that their dinner consists of two Tablespoons each of three different vegetables. Twice a week they get one oyster each (is that okay? they seem HUGE) and once a week they get a cod liver oil softgel. I am notoriously lacking in imagination when it comes to food (just ask my kids) and so the menu is almost exactly as outlined in Debbie's book, but not always, some of it also depends on what I'm chopping up for we humans' dinner. In addition to that, they are given 12 to 15 Mazuri (23% protein) lab blocks. We are not free feeding lab blocks on the recommendation of the rescue we adopted them from (I'm perfectly okay with this as free feeding is not a practice I'm personally on board with, but you guys are the experts). For breakfast, they get two Tablespoons of fruit. Water, of course, is given daily.

I strongly suspect that with three kids in the house who are head over heels in love with these boys, treats are freely bestowed as well (a treat would consist of a cheerio or rice krispie, something to that effect).

So, whaddya think? Comments, anyone?
 
I, personally, do not care for Debbie D's practices. I think her suggested foods are often high fat/high protein. I believe she recommends something called a molasses mix? Which I really don't understand the purpose of other than lots of sugar, fat, and protein. After consulting with various rat people, they don't get all of the supplementing she suggests, either. You can give good treats that are nice and lean and that are just as good as some of the things she suggests. Also, you're feeding a decent block, which provides all of the needed vitamins and minerals that your rats need. There's really no need to supplement them for that purpose. Mostly what we do is offer variety. That's just my two cents, though.

For my girls, I get frozen veggie mixes that offer the variety without my having to go through a dozen bags of individual stuff to make it unique every night. Things like Chinese Stir fry, Japanese Stir fry, California Mix, etc.. The classic peas/carrot/corn mix isn't fantastically great, but it'll do in a pinch and the rats adore it. Depending on what I ate that night, they may get a bit of that, too. Sometimes I go a little bonkers and buy out the fresh organic produce and spend a day freezing up batches for them, but most times that just gets tossed in with the bagged mixes when I feed them. Anything from zucchini, squash, cauliflower, broccoli, brussel sprouts, sweet potatoes [always cooked!], kale, spinach.. Just about anything in the produce section is a Go. Take a peek at the Forbidden Foods List to get an idea of what *not* to give.

As for amount, that's up to your kiddos. You want enough that it takes them a little while to finish, but not so much that there's always a bunch left over. A single green bean or so is fine, but if they're leaving the majority of their food for you to find in the morning, it's too much. If they're scarfing it down before you've even left the room, then it may be too little. I give my girls maybe 3 tablespoons total of veggies, and if I'm putting it on a salad for them it's probably less than that. Salad is approximately 1/2C of spring mix.That's enough to feed 3 females at 8mo, 1yr, and 2yrs old. This is roughly the same diet I've used for all of their lives, though. I give them maybe 1/8C of a multigrain cereal as a treat sometimes.

I personally have no issue with free feeding blocks. Rats generally don't overeat like dogs or cats will unless there are other issues. With normal, active, healthy rats they'll eat the suggested amounts of 2-3 blocks a day. I toss a handful into their bowl during cage cleaning and refill when it's empty. During the week I do daily stash checks and put everything back into their food bowl so I know they're eating as they should. It's really a personal option, though, so you do what you feel is best. So long as they're getting the required nutrition, they'll be fine.

As for the kids giving treats.. If they desperately have to give one, try to get them to offer fruits and veggies instead of real "treat" like treats. A single rice crispy or cheerio isn't going to make or break their waistline, but it can add up if all 3 are doing the same routine.
 
That sounds pretty good Pied.
I'm not a fan of Debbie D's menu either. I prefer my rats on a high quality block and daily fresh veggies. Like java mentioned, just enough for them to finish and not enough for it to lay around.
2-3 blocks each a day is perfect.

A low caloric diet is proven to add months to a rat's lifespan.
A low protein and fat diet is ideal to ward off tumours, dermal issues and even some cancers.
 
I have heard wonderful things about Debbie`s diet.
Her diet is given instead of a good quality lab block.
The number of lab blocks ratties need may vary due to various factors such as the type (and therefore size) of the lab block.

Since you are feeding them a good quality lab block, they would not also get her diet.
However, the suggested diet may give you an idea of types of vegs and portion sizes that would be good for your ratties.
 
javakittie said:
You're feeding a decent block, which provides all of the needed vitamins and minerals that your rats need. There's really no need to supplement them for that purpose. Mostly what we do is offer variety.

So, you would suggest I nix the oysters and cod liver oil? They're not going to be very happy with you if you say yes, they sure do luv them oysters!! :lol:

javakittie said:
For my girls, I get frozen veggie mixes that offer the variety without my having to go through a dozen bags of individual stuff to make it unique every night. Things like Chinese Stir fry, Japanese Stir fry, California Mix, etc.. The classic peas/carrot/corn mix isn't fantastically great, but it'll do in a pinch and the rats adore it.

:shock: OMG! That's a fantastic idea! Now why didn't I think of that. Do you lightly cook them? Or just give them to your girls thawed?

javakittie said:
Depending on what I ate that night, they may get a bit of that, too.

I've been doing a little of that too, but mostly using Debbie D's menu plan as a guideline for the different fresh fruits and vegetables to feed.

javakittie said:
Anything from zucchini, squash, cauliflower, broccoli, brussel sprouts, sweet potatoes [always cooked!], kale, spinach.. Just about anything in the produce section is a Go. Take a peek at the Forbidden Foods List to get an idea of what *not* to give.

That's probably an easier way to approach it, hunh? Just check out what they can't have!

javakittie said:
As for amount, that's up to your kiddos. You want enough that it takes them a little while to finish, but not so much that there's always a bunch left over. A single green bean or so is fine, but if they're leaving the majority of their food for you to find in the morning, it's too much. If they're scarfing it down before you've even left the room, then it may be too little. I give my girls maybe 3 tablespoons total of veggies, and if I'm putting it on a salad for them it's probably less than that. Salad is approximately 1/2C of spring mix.That's enough to feed 3 females at 8mo, 1yr, and 2yrs old. This is roughly the same diet I've used for all of their lives, though. I give them maybe 1/8C of a multigrain cereal as a treat sometimes.

Okay, so at six Tablespoons of veggies for three babies, maybe we're overdoing it - I'll cut it back a little. As well, I've noticed that the boys aren't really crazy about their leafy greens, much preferring to chow down on the starchier veggies :roll: . So far, I've offered kale, spring mix and parsley, which all have received a lukewarm reception. Any suggestions for dark, leafy greens that all ratties seem to enjoy?

javakittie said:
As for the kids giving treats.. If they desperately have to give one, try to get them to offer fruits and veggies instead of real "treat" like treats. A single rice crispy or cheerio isn't going to make or break their waistline, but it can add up if all 3 are doing the same routine.

I'll definitely have to speak to everyone about this as I caught hubby doing it, too! :lol:

Thanks for all the really great pointers, Kat!
 
PiedPiper said:
So, you would suggest I nix the oysters and cod liver oil? They're not going to be very happy with you if you say yes, they sure do luv them oysters!! :lol:

I would suggest giving oysters as a once in a very long while sort of treat. I tried it briefly when I got my first girls, and they really didn't miss them once they realized I was giving them a ton of other things instead.

PiedPiper said:
:shock: OMG! That's a fantastic idea! Now why didn't I think of that. Do you lightly cook them? Or just give them to your girls thawed?
I usually toss it in a pan to thaw out and heat up a bit. Some of the mixes I get contain onions, and I just feel better making sure they're thoroughly cooked. Raw Onion = Bad. If I'm especially lazy, I've got a Frozen Veggie button on my microwave.

PiedPiper said:
That's probably an easier way to approach it, hunh? Just check out what they can't have!

Yep, it is. Their diet is just as varied as our's is, so it's easier to look at the short list of No's. When I first got my girls, I printed out the List and had it taped on the fridge.

javakittie said:
Okay, so at six Tablespoons of veggies for three babies, maybe we're overdoing it - I'll cut it back a little. As well, I've noticed that the boys aren't really crazy about their leafy greens, much preferring to chow down on the starchier veggies :roll: . So far, I've offered kale, spring mix and parsley, which all have received a lukewarm reception. Any suggestions for dark, leafy greens that all ratties seem to enjoy?

My girls are mad about their Spring mix. I do offer it to them without veggies, which might have made a difference? Every once in a while I sprinkle a bit of olive oil on top to keep their coat nice and dazzling. Might help pique your kiddos' interest. Just a tiny bit, and not an every day thing.
 
jorats said:
I prefer my rats on a high quality block and daily fresh veggies. Like java mentioned, just enough for them to finish and not enough for it to lay around.
2-3 blocks each a day is perfect.

D'yall leave "the salad bar" in their cage overnight? We do and in the morning it tends to be all gone (but does leaving their salad plate in overnight constitute "laying around"? - I know I must sound like an absolute moron, but I'm just trying to do things right!) . . . well except for the leafy greens :roll:. At least, they eat their broccoli! :lol:

jorats said:
A low caloric diet is proven to add months to a rat's lifespan.

A low protein and fat diet is ideal to ward off tumours, dermal issues and even some cancers.

Is this something I should be striving for, now? At 13 weeks of age - low cal, low fat, low protein? All I want is for our boys to have long, happy, healthy lives.
 
SQ said:
I have heard wonderful things about Debbie`s diet.
Her diet is given instead of a good quality lab block.
The number of lab blocks ratties need may vary due to various factors such as the type (and therefore size) of the lab block.

Since you are feeding them a good quality lab block, they would not also get her diet.
However, the suggested diet may give you an idea of types of vegs and portion sizes that would be good for your ratties.

Thanks, Holly. I had a look at the recipe for the molasses mix and kinda went :shock:. It looked a bit too time intensive for me so I opted for the lab blocks instead. I refer to Debbie's Menu Plan for ideas on what fruits and vegetables to feed, but I think I'm just going to follow javakittie's suggestion and post the Forbidden Foods List on the refridgerator door instead. I'm still playing around with portions to see what works best with our trio and I'm sure that just as soon as I get it right, they'll go through a growth spurt and I'll have to change it up again!

Ahhh . . . the joys! It's a good thing EarlGrey is so calm and laid back, she just leaves all the stressing to me!
 
javakittie said:
I would suggest giving oysters as a once in a very long while sort of treat. I tried it briefly when I got my first girls, and they really didn't miss them once they realized I was giving them a ton of other things instead.

LOL! Okay - but they're not going to like it! Neither will the dogs! They were quite enjoying their oysters treats too!

javakittie said:
Some of the mixes I get contain onions, and I just feel better making sure they're thoroughly cooked. Raw Onion = Bad. If I'm especially lazy, I've got a Frozen Veggie button on my microwave.

Gotcha!

javakittie said:
When I first got my girls, I printed out the List and had it taped on the fridge.

Another really good idea, thanks!

javakittie said:
My girls are mad about their Spring mix. I do offer it to them without veggies, which might have made a difference?

Could be. I'll try it.

javakittie said:
Every once in a while I sprinkle a bit of olive oil on top to keep their coat nice and dazzling. Might help pique your kiddos' interest. Just a tiny bit, and not an every day thing.

I'll try that, too! Thanks, again!
 
Gina,

Debbie D is a controversial name with many. I happen to have done very well with her tofu/molasses mix for the boys.

Ben and Jerry began receiving these when I got them; they were 2 months old. They did not get them every day so I came up with the plan of pre-forming the balls, freezing them and pulling them the night before I planned on feeding the boys with them.

Ben is the epitome of health. He has no weight problems and no illnesses to boast.

Basil began receiving them when I brought him home. Like with Ben, he also only gets one about twice a week. My vet is extremely critical of Debbie D but she did look at the recipe for the tofu/molasses mix and agreed that the ingredients were beneficial for the rats' health as long as they were not overfed with it.

I tend to be cautious of any hardcore criticism of Debbie. I have dealt with professional vets who, after indicating that they were "educated" and "specialized" in animal wellfare, turned out not to have a clue about what they were doing.

Debbie is not a vet... and she doesn't claim to be. I have yet to experience any arrogance from her when confronted with difficult questions. She has over 30 years of experience with rats and has owned a ton of them. My uncle built a house about 20 years ago... and the man never studied architecture. He had been a plumber's assistant and had kept his senses open to everything going on around him.

I am not saying that he is perfect; what I am saying is that people like him (and Debbie D.) deserve some credit for their hard earned experience and knowledge.

I don't agree with everything Debbie has suggested but it is my prerogative, as a citizen of a democracy, to pick and choose as I see fit.

My veterinary doctors are always enamoured with my boys and say how beautiful, healthy and active they are. Part of that is thanks to Debbie's input and suggestions.

If a vet can provide me with solid information on why something of Debbie's is detrimental to the well being of my rats... then I will abide by it; but if they don't... and my rats are doing well... I will do what I consider appropriate.

I'm not suggesting that the comments on this thread are wrong. Like me, everyone here has the right to handle, as they deem appropriate, in the care of their treasured rat families. All I am saying is that there is a wealth of information out there from people who have experience; including several extremely knowledgeable members of this very site. I have no information on whether or not Jorats, Lilspaz, SQ or others, whose opinions and advice I actively seek, are trained vets... but I am more inclined to listen to their advice because I know that they have a great deal of experience with rats and are not trying to make money with their health. Vets are a business... it is a fact and it is acceptable... but they are still out there to make money. I have yet to see an invoice from Debbie or Jorats for valuable advice they have given me in the care of my boys. They do what they do out of love for the animals... that counts highly in my book. Sure, I run to the vet too... but I run to the Debbies, Jorats, Lilspazs, SQs and Fidgets as well. :love6:

JMHO for what it's worth.

Hugs
 
Gina, I too use bags of frozen veg.. they're a staple at home for us humans and the girlies certainly enjoy their share!

I just grab a small handful say, in the morning and put it in a bowl in the fridge to give when they dethaw. We don't tend to have mixes with onions in them, so I don't have to worry about that.

Same goes for the occasional bit of frozen fruit. They don't get a whole lot of fruit, and not really regularly either, but we always have frozen fruit around for smoothies and things and occasionally the girls get some thawed out raspberries, or pineapple (a real treat!)
 
There's a lot of really heady stuff here. Many, many, good tips and suggestions too. Now I just need to sort it all out and find out what works best for us!

Thanks to everyone for your input! I really appreciate all the help everyone's given us over the past few weeks! :wave:
 
Nope, not a vet :lol:

Interesting idea Jen. I'll have to stop being so lazy and try it.

My ratties also get frozen vegs ... fresh when in season.
Mine like some of their veg raw and some cooked. They also like mixed field greens. Just a matter of trying different things and offering a varied diet.
 
I occasionally make Debbie D's molasses mix. When we first got rats, we used it all the time, but now it is more of an occasional thing. When I make it these days, I make a big batch and freeze it, and feed much smaller portions of it.

My rats get fresh fruits and veggies daily. Mostly fresh, occasionally frozen when I just don't have the time or energy for chopping.

I do have a question about Brussels sprouts. I have seen on various sites that they are fine, that they are forbidden, and that they are fine as long as they are cooked, but forbidden if they are raw. Any opinions on this?
 
As far as I know, it's just the raw brussel sprouts that are bad. I've fed my girls cooked brussel sprouts with absolutely no issue.
 
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