Help - rat with mystery illness

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blueCitrus

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Hi,

last week, my almost 2 yr old rat started exhibiting symptoms of pain (puffed up fur, laboured breathing and side sucking) and I took her to the vet. She seemed to think that, because of her previous history of mammary tumor operations (last one done in September this year), she probably has mets on her lungs and prescribed cortizone and baytril. Btw her lungs sounded fine, she didn't seem in respiratory distress, the laboured breathing looked like a sign of pain more than URI.

Following a week of that, her pain symptoms did seem to improve a bit but she still had laboured breathing and had lost a lot of weight (at this point, she still had a healthy appetite and her energy levels were almost normal) so I took her to the vet again and that definitely eliminated URIs, so she put her on Metacam instead of Cortisone and told me to wait until she passes because there was nothing more that could be done.

I've been monitoring her this week and her energy levels have been fluctuating wildly. Yesterday was the first day that she couldn't hold solid food with her hands, wasn't interested in drinking water and looked generally miserable. I've tried to make a mush of lab blocks and yoghurt / jam and she hated it (I've given it to the others to see if it they liked it and it was a 100% hit). She's skin and bones at this point.

I've resigned myself to forcing her to only take medication and water through a syringe, but this morning I've seen her take nibbles of solid food, and she generally looks a lot better than yesterday.

I have no idea what's wrong with her and I've already prepared myself for her passing so I wanted to see if anyone here saw the same symptoms with their rats? Is there still hope?

Unfortunately, it's the holidays here so I can take her to a different vet tomorrow at the earliest for a second opinion. It's just weird how her body looks terrible but she's still here in spirit and it crushes me to resign myself to her passing when she still comes to me to be pet, runs around her cage, and takes treats enthusiastically (although she just drops them immediately...)

I'm still stumped as to what's actually wrong with her and it seems like it might be a PT, even though the classic signs aren't there - this link shows something similar to what Squeak is experiencing right now (warning NSFW): http://ratguide.com/health/figures/pituitary_tumor_figure_3.php

Thanks for reading, I would love to just hear if somebody had a similar experience. I've taken time off work and have been in limbo for two weeks, expecting her to pass and being crushed only to see her bounce back and then repeating the cycle.
 
Can you get a video of your rat moving around and trying to eat? Even offering a small light treat and seeing how she mouths it can give us a clue as to whether it's PT or not but I suspect it is. I have 2 case histories up on ratguide (figures 1 and 2 ).
 
Thanks for replying. I'll describe what I'm seeing so you know what I'm talking about. Firstly the costal breathing, I'm assuming that's pain? I gave her an almond, all my rats go absolutely nuts (excuse the pun) for them and devour them in like under 10s. I've noticed she's eating a lot slower than usual and at the end of the video you'll see her kind of just drop it as if she's had enough but I don't know, it looks like it's not just that.

As far as walking / climbing she looks normal to me, definitely no circling.

Here's the link:
 
lilspaz68 said:
Can you get a video of your rat moving around and trying to eat? Even offering a small light treat and seeing how she mouths it can give us a clue as to whether it's PT or not but I suspect it is. I have 2 case histories up on ratguide (figures 1 and 2 ).
Click to expand...


Sorry I don't know if I hit reply correctly (i.e. if you get notifications when I comment) so I'm pinging again
 
Her eyes are bright, she's pretty adept with those front paws and holding the almond. The costal breathing is just her using her abdomen to breathe not necessarily pain. Signs of pain are sucking in the gut, twisting and maybe dragging hind legs behind them. We call these owwie stretches. Her eating slowly is possibly her lungs being consolidated (constricted rather than noisy), and her eating, swallowing and then stopping to breathe. Offer soft foods she can lick up and see if you can stabilize her weight. With soft food, it's lick, swallow, breathe and much easier on them.
 
Thanks so much! The vet I've been to basically told me that she was going to die soon and that there's nothing that could be done. I'm getting a second opinion first thing tomorrow of course. But she's definitely in some sort of pain, this is what I was told by two vets so still no idea what's wrong with her :(
 
lilspaz68 said:
If your lass has pulmonary abscesses the baytril and steroid (cortisone? Or prednisone?) Would be best for long term palliative care.
Click to expand...
She's on baytril and she was switched from cortisone to metacam on Monday. But she's never had a URI and she doesn't sound congested
 
Pulmonary abscesses cause lung consolidation not fluid buildup that sounds like congestion. Do her sides over her lungs (chest) feel harder with less give? This is a classic symptoms of PA. They lose weight, get nipped in waist as well and often will do the costal breathing. It's very hard to treat. Her being hunched isn't necessarily a sign of pain, it's a sign of general unwellness. If you have real pain, you should see a change in your rats body language once they have had some.
 
lilspaz68 said:
Pulmonary abscesses cause lung consolidation not fluid buildup that sounds like congestion. Do her sides over her lungs (chest) feel harder with less give? This is a classic symptoms of PA. They lose weight, get nipped in waist as well and often will do the costal breathing. It's very hard to treat. Her being hunched isn't necessarily a sign of pain, it's a sign of general unwellness. If you have real pain, you should see a change in your rats body language once they have had some.
Click to expand...

How do you mean harder? I just feel her ribcage and it's maybe a bit more rigid than the other rats' but she's also lost a lot of weight so it's difficult to compare. She was on cortisone for a week but I didn't really notice a difference other than her fur being less puffy. If she does have PA, what would be the outlook? Can't seem to find a lot of info on that
 
lilspaz68 said:
Her eyes are bright, she's pretty adept with those front paws and holding the almond. The costal breathing is just her using her abdomen to breathe not necessarily pain. Signs of pain are sucking in the gut, twisting and maybe dragging hind legs behind them. We call these owwie stretches. Her eating slowly is possibly her lungs being consolidated (constricted rather than noisy), and her eating, swallowing and then stopping to breathe. Offer soft foods she can lick up and see if you can stabilize her weight. With soft food, it's lick, swallow, breathe and much easier on them.
Click to expand...

Also, I don't know if you've seen the end of the video where she drops the almond? To me it looks like she dropped it and forgot about it which I read is a sign of PT, rather than being done with eating but I might just be paranoid
 
By the time they are dropping food and "losing/forgetting" it they look confused with dull eyes and loose floppy movements. Your girl had had enough IMO.
Keep an eye on those harder lungs, as the abscesses develop in the lungs and fill up the space where air used to go. I have pics but unfortunately Photobucket is down still so I can't access them. It's possible her steroid dose wasn't high enough to show a big effect, as vets often underdose it. I can link a video showing the full eyes etc when PT symptoms show up and after steroids with the improvement.
http://lilspazrathospice.blogspot.com/2016/11/pituitary-tumour-failing-cheerio-test.html
 
So we've done an X-ray today and it looks like she seems to have a large mass on her heart (it's not even discernible in the image), and diminished lung capacity. The trachea seems to be pushed against the spine by the mass so that's the reason she's having difficulty breathing.

She's gotten Lasix and two other heart meds, so we'll see how that goes.
 
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There's not much you can do for an internal tumor at her age. I'm So sorry for you, you've certainly gone above & beyond for her, but her body is nearing it's end. All you can do for your beautiful Squeak is Spoil her, and watch that 'enjoying life/not enjoying it' scale.
She will be ready to go before you're ready for it. I hope you can feel at peace that you've done all you could do, and focus on the wonderful life she's had with you, and the joy she's brought into your life.
 
Thank you, your words mean a lot.

The vet told me she's probably not in any pain, just having a harder time breathing so that makes me feel a bit better about it. She's still active and she seems happy for now, she's been eating better since yesterday too! I just hope that she will pass peacefully when she's ready. I will have her pts if I see that she's not coping anymore but I would rather not stress her with a trip to the vet unless absolutely necessary.

She's the first rat I will be losing and I can't imagine her being gone. It's hard.
 
I'm sorry :(... It always hurts to know your time together is coming to an end (especially when this is your first loss), yet you can make the most of every moment you have left and enjoy it to it's fullest! I like to think of it Spoiling time for us both, lots of cuddles and no ration on treats!.. Understanding hearts are with you..
 
She's gone. She took a turn for the worse yesterday evening and looked completely miserable.. I was hoping she would go in her sleep, but when I saw that she was still alive this morning I called a vet to visit and we had her pts at home. I just really didn't think it would be this soon.. Next week or in a few days even, but it was so sudden.. I don't know, she's just gone now and I don't know what to do
 
Also, we put her body in the cage afterwards and her other 6 cagemates didn't seem to notice or care. Is this normal? I had to give them treats to get them to leave their spacepods and then they just stepped over her little body to get to the treats.. I just feel weird that they didn't care
 
I'm sorry :( It'll be hard for a while, lots of heart-lurches every time you're reminded she's not there, like giving out 6 treats instead of 7... At times like that I try to focus on a good memory, like bringing her home, gaining her trust, seeing her pleasure at something.. It's always too soon for us, but the right time for them if they're suffering.
Far as her cagemates, I've seen all different reactions, you may see some grieving yet, but ratties live in the moment better than we do, and they have each other to help each other thru, and you have Them to help you thru. You'll all be ok, and Squeak is ok, remember her with happy thoughts. Hugs.
 

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