Debbie D - Screenshots from RFC site

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RattusNorvegicus said:
I would like to clarify, Debbie DOES anesthetize her rats for surgeries using isoflurane.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/Ratfanc ... 690672214/
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I'm having a hard time believing she gets it legally.

and seriously, has everyone totally lost their common sense?? think about it, you have an animal you love dearly, can you even imagine cutting it open when you have no medical training whatsoever?
does she have an assistant when she's cutting open these rats? anesthesia has to be carefully monitored, no vet does surgery without at least a tech present, I would hope.

It just totally boggles my mind.
upsets me so much I can't think straight
 
I am really glad that someone got screen shots of this conversation.

I don't think I have ever gotten so mad reading something before. I could not imagine letting my babies go through anything like that. I have a book from her and I wish I could get my money back!!! Wish I had known about how inhumane she is before I bought it...
 
Petunia said:
RattusNorvegicus said:
I would like to clarify, Debbie DOES anesthetize her rats for surgeries using isoflurane.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/Ratfanc ... 690672214/
Click to expand...


I'm having a hard time believing she gets it legally.

and seriously, has everyone totally lost their common sense?? think about it, you have an animal you love dearly, can you even imagine cutting it open when you have no medical training whatsoever?
does she have an assistant when she's cutting open these rats? anesthesia has to be carefully monitored, no vet does surgery without at least a tech present, I would hope.

It just totally boggles my mind.
upsets me so much I can't think straight
Click to expand...

I believe I heard her brother is a vet........ I could be wrong but regardless it is uncalled for. There is no reason for her to do a surgery she has no training to do it.
 
RattusNorvegicus said:
I would like to clarify, Debbie DOES anesthetize her rats for surgeries using isoflurane.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/Ratfanc ... 690672214/
Click to expand...

That's what she says now but we don't know if that's actually true or not. If she were open and had nothing to hide, the conversation would not have been deleted.

She does defend someone who said they saw a rat have a tumour cut out without sedation and not even flinch in the screen shots and argues rats don't feel as much pain as humans. I go back to my earlier point about babies. Times change, science evolves and admits earlier misconceptions. In recent years, the dosage recommendations for pain relief for rats have increased significantly because it's becoming more and more clear they need it and they do better post op. The vast majority of serious issues we see on the forum post op are caused by lack of pain meds.

No matter how you slice it, she does not have a science degree. Veterinary assistant programs are short diploma programs at colleges (I think the term is junior college in the US) and do not even compare to the standard required in veterinary technician programs. It *may* be legal for her to provide her own vet care and to dispense advice for free but it is not ethical, especially the way she does it. It is not legal for her to buy all the medications she does without a prescription (otherwise, why does Jedd's not sell Baytril more openly?) and if she is indeed using isoflurane, she is getting it from a vet that is breaking the law.

How arrogant is she that she's doing surgeries, not only her own rats but other people's as well, in her own home? If veterinary medicine is something you can master by working as someone's assistant, why do so many people waste all the time and effort of competing to get into vet school and then busting their butts to get through it?

Last but not least, I want to point out that she is benefiting financially from dispensing all her 'free' advice and services. She sells a lot of books and handbooks and by using the RFC as a forum to dispense the advice AND sell her wares, a compelling argument could be made that she's not helping people day in and day out out of the goodness of her heart or concern for rats but so she can promote and sell more books and THAT may very well be illegal. I really really hope this gets brought to the attention of the right people and she ends up where she belongs - JAIL.

The other Debbie said it really well. Most people would be up in arms if we were talking about dogs but because it's rats, people think somehow it's different. Maybe it all goes back to the "it's just a rat" mentality because it sure is not easier to treat rats than it is dogs.
 
RattusNorvegicus said:
I would like to clarify, Debbie DOES anesthetize her rats for surgeries using isoflurane.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/Ratfanc ... 690672214/
Click to expand...

Even if she gets iso in canister/liquid form, what does she do? Put some on a cotton ball put it and a rat in a container and knock the rat out that way? I doubt shes got a mobile anesthesia machine to use it properly. So this is super dangerous even though the rat is technically anesthetized, you have NO control over the depth of the anesthesia...VERY dangerous for our rats. I do know that she USED to use chloroform on a rag during surgeries...UGH.
 
victoria said:
Last but not least, I want to point out that she is benefiting financially from dispensing all her 'free' advice and services. She sells a lot of books and handbooks and by using the RFC as a forum to dispense the advice AND sell her wares, a compelling argument could be made that she's not helping people day in and day out out of the goodness of her heart or concern for rats but so she can promote and sell more books and THAT may very well be illegal. I really really hope this gets brought to the attention of the right people and she ends up where she belongs - JAIL.
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This is a VERY valid point!

lilspaz68 said:
I do know that she USED to use chloroform on a rag during surgeries...UGH.
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*insert emoticon that resembles the glare I just gave the computer screen when I read this* (There is no emoticon so imagine the iciest glare possible)
 
I am upset about this too (since it seems maybe my comment suggested I wasn't).
I just don't want the wrong information going around because that just makes US look bad. I didn't say "Debbie uses anesthetic so that makes it okay", I just saw many of you comment on how crazy it is that she cuts her rats open wide awake and that isn't true. I didn't really want to get involved with this and have also avoided commenting on FB. I've liked a few posts here and there, but that is about as far as I want to go. Her home surgeries aren't something new to us so that didn't push me off the edge...however I do not understand why she would advise something as simple as pain medication be withheld especially for a broken bone! Twitch has gotten her legs stuck in the Martin's playpen twice, and this last time, she was screaming! It took some figuring to get it out and when I finally did, she was frantic and definitely in pain- and nothing was broken!
 
jorats said:
I don't know if it's been mentioned already but the rat she was advising against pain meds for the broken leg has died.
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:sad3:
Rest well little one.

If rats heal from bone breaks at home, this either was something more serious than a bone break, or a complicated break that damaged more than just bone and should have been handled by a vet. Or lack of treatment and pain medication may have contributed to shock and eventual death. Either way, simply seeing the vet would have doubled this rat's chances at life.

No matter how I look at it, this was many different shades of WRONG. And so, so unfortunate for the poor rat. Regardless of what Debbie may or may not do, the fact that she gives medical advice without seeing an animal or pictures/video of said animal is downright wrong. No one has a right to do that without posting a disclaimer. One of the things I love about the Shack is that, while we have many experts, the soundest advice they give is to see a vet or check with a vet. Our experts ask for details, pictures, video, and from there suggest what is most likely the problem and likely treatments, all prefaced by or followed by "See your vet."

Debbie should be ashamed of herself. They removed the post, and it's absolutely sickening to think that RFC is aware of how effed up Debbie's advice was and decided the best thing to do would be to hide it from the world. Just sickening.
 
From what I read, more than 100 people who protested against her were banned from the RFC. That says that, unless you agree with her, you aren't allowed to post a difference of opinion. Isn't this going against 'freedom of speech'? Any animal in pain should see a vet for advice regarding care and follow up treatment. A broken leg could involve internal bleeding, shock, and much else. Pain is pain, no matter the species. Vets go to school to become fully versed in animal care, and some vets specialize in rats; we have to seek those people out, and even with vets, some are better than others, but credentials are there for a reason. If your animal is ill or in pain, see a vet. Period.
 
Erm, WTF?

I know I've seen her site, but as kid and I found, a healthy chunk of advice wasn't matching up to current advice. So, we figured it wasn't worth following.

But, I took a dog to the emergency vet when a toenail was broken, not wanting to clot, and Buddy wasn't weight bearing on that foot and wouldn't let me hold anything to his foot. I'm sure the staff laughed at me after, but I had a hurt, bleeding dog, even if I really figured it wasn't that bad, I was happier with the exam, nail trim, silver nitrate stick and a few days of Metacam. So, clearly, no, I don't mind spending $390 at the vet for minor issues, so I'm not in her target audience.
 
OH MY GOD! I can't even believe what I just read. Debbie is absolutely INSANE and cruel. How could she possbily know as much as she claims about surgery, pain sensory, etc. I'm planning on entering veterinary school in the very near future and there is a reason why it takes at least 7 years of sciences and intense hands on learning and practice to master these procedures. She has NO IDEA what she is talking about and that's bad enough, let alone giving out medical advice to inexperienced pet owners. I'm enraged by this. This woman is psychotic! To think you could surgically remove a tumor from a rat without any pain control or anasthesia and that they wouldn't "feel a thing" is blatant insanity and animal cruelty. It breaks my heart to think of all the poor, innocent rats who have had the misfortune of meeting her. The other Debbie is BANG ON when she told her that pain is a stresser and compromises the immune system, that is basic vet knowledge and basic knowledge to anybody with any common sense.

I bet if she broke her f*cking leg she wouldn't go without proper medical treatment and pain management. I just can't even believe what I just read... unbelievable!
 
Is there anyway we can take this information to the other major rat message boards? Ms. Ducommun gave me my first "good" pieces of information about owning rats through her book way back in the day, and I'm sure that many others only come to appreciate rats because they view her as an authentic and proper source of good information. But if she's become a "crazy rat lady" then people need to know that as well and to take her advice with a grain (or tablespoon) of salt.
 
JudeWriley said:
Is there anyway we can take this information to the other major rat message boards? Ms. Ducommun gave me my first "good" pieces of information about owning rats through her book way back in the day, and I'm sure that many others only come to appreciate rats because they view her as an authentic and proper source of good information. But if she's become a "crazy rat lady" then people need to know that as well and to take her advice with a grain (or tablespoon) of salt.
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they all know.

She's doing a spay this weekend...poor Shadow, BUT in this case Shadow is better with her crazy surgery and a better home then where she is...

Debbie D has been helping this "breeder" since 2010...they both live in Chico, CA

It was so nice to have Debbie the rat lady come by our home this morning. We spent at least an hour talking with her about our animals, breeding projects, rescued animals etc. It was very nice being able to show her our home and discuss how we care for all our animal family members
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Mad Hatter Rodentry it was amazing and so rewarding to see shadow one of our breeders finally retiring and finding a good home. Debbie is also going to spay her so she can live a litter free rest of her life.

and from RFC (it was posted there as well)

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Debbie Ducommun Yes, I will be working on introductions this weekend while Coco's family is out of town. Coco lost his roommate, and is lonely. Shadow is a girl that Elizabeth has retired from breeding, and approximately the same age as Coco. I have to say that Elizabeth seems very concerned about the health and well-being of her animals. The cages she keeps her breeders in are much smaller than what I would ideally recommend, but they are clean and well kept.

"smaller than ideal but clean and well kept"? Yeah anyone can do that with THIS!

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 636&type=1
 
If its illegal for a person to pose as a medical doctor I would think its illegal for one to pose as a vet and that is what it seems to me that she is doing. I know she says she isn't a vet, but she is performing their job without a license. There has to be a medical board she can be turned into to - there is obviously enough information out there, in her own words, to prove she is acting criminally.

Anyway, I think its time to tie her down and perform surgery without anethesia and see if she feels it :dance:
 

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