Cabergoline

[dawnmb57]

Button is a 2.9 year old rat diagnosed with dementia. Vet has prescribed cabergoline which I have mixed with chocolate ice cream. Button still hates it and it's a struggle to give it to her. She has terrible diarrhea the next day. She has to take it every 3 days so by the time she has recovered from a dose and is back to semi-enjoying life( she still doesn't seem to be aware of her surroundings a lot of the time and will fall if she is allowed near the edge of anything including my lap).

I wonder if I am being kind in continuing to treat her or if the kinder thing would be to let her go. Spending 1/3 of your life in misery when you don't even know what's going on seems cruel. On the other hand is there something that will hide the taste of cabergoline that I am not aware of?

 

[Miss_Rattie]

I have never had success with finding anything to mix with cabergoline to disguise the taste enough. I have usually just dissolved it in a tiny volume of water and quickly syringed it into their mouths, as they all hated it. I never had any problems with any side effects and maybe you could ask your vet if they could give anything to ease the side effects - unless you could decrease the dose to give the same treatment effect but reduce the diarrhea. I know that yoghurt is good for the gut when giving antibiotics, so I don't know whether that could be worth a try?

With my rats, I have always just known when it is time to stop treatment - as you said, if your rat is having more time dealing with the side effects than quality time, then maybe the cabergoline is not the right choice. Maybe your vet could recommend something else to keep your rat more comfortable, as I'm guessing that there is no pain with dementia and it is more a case of being confused. Whatever you decide, I would keep him comfortable and warm and give him lots of treats to spoil her in her old age.

 

[jorats]

This is the tough part, when it is it time. Balancing quality over quantity. How many doses has she had? Have you noticed a huge improvement in her dementia/pt?

 

[dawnmb57]

I have never had success with finding anything to mix with cabergoline to disguise the taste enough. I have usually just dissolved it in a tiny volume of water and quickly syringed it into their mouths, as they all hated it. I never had any problems with any side effects and maybe you could ask your vet if they could give anything to ease the side effects - unless you could decrease the dose to give the same treatment effect but reduce the diarrhea. I know that yoghurt is good for the gut when giving antibiotics, so I don't know whether that could be worth a try?

With my rats, I have always just known when it is time to stop treatment - as you said, if your rat is having more time dealing with the side effects than quality time, then maybe the cabergoline is not the right choice. Maybe your vet could recommend something else to keep your rat more comfortable, as I'm guessing that there is no pain with dementia and it is more a case of being confused. Whatever you decide, I would keep him comfortable and warm and give him lots of treats to spoil her in her old age.

The instructions on my prescriptions say to dissolve the 8 tablets in 5 mils of fluid and give her one mil each time. Do you use less fluid than that? Seems like it takes forever to feed a mil of fluid that tastes bad.

Thanks for the yogurt idea! I totally forgot.

 

[dawnmb57]

For some reason I'm unable to reply to each of you so Miss Rattie, my instructions say to dissolve the 8 tablets in 5 mils of fluid. I imagine that is because it won't dissolve well in less. How many mils do you dissolve yours in? Seems like it takes forever to feed a rat 1 mil of yucky medicine. Thanks for the yogurt idea! I totally forgot!

 

[dawnmb57]

This is the tough part, when it is it time. Balancing quality over quantity. How many doses has she had? Have you noticed a huge improvement in her dementia/pt?

She has had four doses and since I wrote that original post she has improved a lot. Since I run a nonprofit I have volunteers and two volunteers who work with her have told me they've noticed a huge Improvement. They said she is moving around more and seems more alert. I asked for their opinions and they both said they would keep giving it to her because one bad day out of three is okay odds. ( awkward wording that I can't think of a better way right now). It is more valuable to me to ask someone who doesn't see her all the time because they can recognize the improvement more so I guess at this time and I will continue the treatment, even though I so dread giving it to her.

Following up on Miss Rattie's idea, I might try some liquid yogurt or kefir as a carrier. Maybe the sour will affect the taste or at least she will be taking something healthier than ice cream which apparently doesn't make any difference at all in taste.

 

[dawnmb57]

I have never had success with finding anything to mix with cabergoline to disguise the taste enough. I have usually just dissolved it in a tiny volume of water and quickly syringed it into their mouths, as they all hated it. I never had any problems with any side effects and maybe you could ask your vet if they could give anything to ease the side effects - unless you could decrease the dose to give the same treatment effect but reduce the diarrhea. I know that yoghurt is good for the gut when giving antibiotics, so I don't know whether that could be worth a try?

With my rats, I have always just known when it is time to stop treatment - as you said, if your rat is having more time dealing with the side effects than quality time, then maybe the cabergoline is not the right choice. Maybe your vet could recommend something else to keep your rat more comfortable, as I'm guessing that there is no pain with dementia and it is more a case of being confused. Whatever you decide, I would keep him comfortable and warm and give him lots of treats to spoil her in her old age.

Forgot to say in my previous reply that I totally agree with you on treats! Once a rat is old or sick here, we give them abundant treats.

And vet also gave us Metacam with instructions to use between .05 and 5 meals to reduce inflammation. I've been giving the lower dose but am trying to work up the courage to increase the dose and see if that helps as much as the cabergoline or perhaps with as few side effects. I know too much can cause internal bleeding which is why I am hesitant.

You would think dementia doesn't cause pain, but she squinted a lot before the cabergoline so I wonder.

 

[jorats]

If there's any type of improvement, I would definitely continue giving it to her. I know of a rat who lived over a year on cabergoline, keeping all her symptoms at bay. A little bit of a struggle during the med time and some diarrhea is still worth it for extended quality of life.

 

[dawnmb57]

If there's any type of improvement, I would definitely continue giving it to her. I know of a rat who lived over a year on cabergoline, keeping all her symptoms at bay. A little bit of a struggle during the med time and some diarrhea is still worth it for extended quality of life.

Agreed. Thanks for all your help.

 

[SQ]

I have used cabergoline too and it has greatly extended the lives of rats who had the type of pt that responds to it ...... I hope it gives her a lot of good quality time

Here are some links that might be interesting:
http://ratguide.com/meds/central_nervous_system_drugs/cabergoline.php
http://ratguide.com/health/neoplasia/pituitary_tumor.php

 

[dawnmb57]

Update:
Cabergoline has become a routine now. She still hates it but I put it in a mix of Karo syrup and yogurt so she gets a little probiotic with it. Then in her regular meds I also give her some yogurt and some Bene-bac. I don't find diarrhea in the cage anymore and I am really glad for your advice. She sleeps most of the time but comes out and waits for me at mealtimes. She eagerly eats out of the dish and the rest off my finger. Sometimes when I put her back, she seeks out one of her children and snuggles up to them. I often find them cleaning her. So I would say she is enjoying life. I'm so glad to give her this extra time and the cabergoline issues don't seem like such a big deal anymore. Thanks to you all.

 

[Miss_Rattie]

Sorry dawnmb57 for not replying sooner - I only just saw the updates. I always diluted half a cabergoline tablet in 0.5 ml water, to minimise the volume, and then gave by syringe.

I have lost two rats to PTs in the last few months and, as a consequence, I do have seven cabergoline tablets and about 50 prednesilone tablets available, if anyone on the forum needs them, for the cost of postage and as long as there are no postage restrictions. I know how expensive cabergoline is and I am taking a break from getting more rats, although I don't want to throw the tablets away. Please message me if interested.

 

[SQ]

Sorry dawnmb57 for not replying sooner - I only just saw the updates. I always diluted half a cabergoline tablet in 0.5 ml water, to minimise the volume, and then gave by syringe.

I have lost two rats to PTs in the last few months and, as a consequence, I do have seven cabergoline tablets and about 50 prednesilone tablets available, if anyone on the forum needs them, for the cost of postage and as long as there are no postage restrictions. I know how expensive cabergoline is and I am taking a break from getting more rats, although I don't want to throw the tablets away. Please message me if interested.

I am so very sorry.
That is very generous of you.
You might want to say what country you are in

 

[dawnmb57]

Sorry dawnmb57 for not replying sooner - I only just saw the updates. I always diluted half a cabergoline tablet in 0.5 ml water, to minimise the volume, and then gave by syringe.

I have lost two rats to PTs in the last few months and, as a consequence, I do have seven cabergoline tablets and about 50 prednesilone tablets available, if anyone on the forum needs them, for the cost of postage and as long as there are no postage restrictions. I know how expensive cabergoline is and I am taking a break from getting more rats, although I don't want to throw the tablets away. Please message me if interested.

I thought about reducing the amount of liquid but since the pharmacy directions are one mmmm I was afraid to. I messaged you. Even with the discount we are paying $70 a month. Bless your heart!

 

[dawnmb57]

Sorry dawnmb57 for not replying sooner - I only just saw the updates. I always diluted half a cabergoline tablet in 0.5 ml water, to minimise the volume, and then gave by syringe.

I have lost two rats to PTs in the last few months and, as a consequence, I do have seven cabergoline tablets and about 50 prednesilone tablets available, if anyone on the forum needs them, for the cost of postage and as long as there are no postage restrictions. I know how expensive cabergoline is and I am taking a break from getting more rats, although I don't want to throw the tablets away. Please message me if interested.

I thought about reducing the amount of liquid but since the pharmacy directions are one mmmm I was afraid to. I messaged you. Even with the discount we are paying $70 a month. Bless your heart!

Here is our darling old sick girl, Button. She was brought to us with 10 babies. Even malnourished, she was such a wonderful mom and now I am enjoying being a wonderful mom to her.View attachment 5236

 

[SqueakingJellybean]

Glad to hear it's been such an effective medication. I was popping over her to ask something along that line, as Raven has just started showing signs of a PT. She started going downhill pretty fast after Chess' death. We'll talk to our vet about cabergoline and see if it would help at this stage. Thing is, she also deals with chronic respiratory issues (possibly from lung nodules) so if she doesn't take it willingly, squidging it into her mouth via syringe could be disastrous.

 

[Miss_Rattie]

I would get your girl on steroids asap. With my most recent PT rat, within one day of prednesilone treatment she started to improve drastically and could hold food again within about four days. At the end, when she started to get worse, I did manage to stave off the symptoms for an extra ten days or so by increasing her dose to the maximum. You vet could give her a shot of dexamethosone, which normally lasts about three days and then you can move on to prednesilone after that.

For me, the twice I have used the cabergoline in different rats I have not been totally convinced that it has helped a huge amount. For me, the steroid seemed to have the most effect and the cabergoline did take about 5-6 days to see an improvement. Although, I would certainly give it a try and would use it again, as I guess that all tumours are different in how they respond.

I did the syringing very quickly, as my two rats had had chronic URI issues too and did get very stressed when I had to give them meds. My answer was to use a minimum volume as get it done as quickly as possible. The prednesilone was fine to mix in Nutella with the antibiotics that they were taking. The steroids can make URIs worse as they do lower the immune system, so you would have to keep an eye on your girl and maybe increase your antibiotic dose, or change to something else, depending what your vet says.

Best of luck and I hope you can get her on meds quickly.

 

[lilspaz68]

I'm glad you little one is responding so well but just as an FYI, you are treating pituitary tumor, not dementia. Cabergoline and bromocriptine both treat prolactinoma PT's in rats. There are different types of PT's but prolactinomas are the most common one in rats. If a rat doesn't respond to Cab/bromo they likely have a different type and you can only use steroids to give them any sort of reprieve. Its a human medication so you can get it from the pharmacist instead of it being just a veterinary medicine.

I have personally never used Cabergoline, I use bromocriptine myself, as its less expensive and almost as effective.

 

[SqueakingJellybean]

I would get your girl on steroids asap. With my most recent PT rat, within one day of prednesilone treatment she started to improve drastically and could hold food again within about four days. At the end, when she started to get worse, I did manage to stave off the symptoms for an extra ten days or so by increasing her dose to the maximum. You vet could give her a shot of dexamethosone, which normally lasts about three days and then you can move on to prednesilone after that.

For me, the twice I have used the cabergoline in different rats I have not been totally convinced that it has helped a huge amount. For me, the steroid seemed to have the most effect and the cabergoline did take about 5-6 days to see an improvement. Although, I would certainly give it a try and would use it again, as I guess that all tumours are different in how they respond.

I did the syringing very quickly, as my two rats had had chronic URI issues too and did get very stressed when I had to give them meds. My answer was to use a minimum volume as get it done as quickly as possible. The prednesilone was fine to mix in Nutella with the antibiotics that they were taking. The steroids can make URIs worse as they do lower the immune system, so you would have to keep an eye on your girl and maybe increase your antibiotic dose, or change to something else, depending what your vet says.

Best of luck and I hope you can get her on meds quickly.

Thank you. We've got an appointment with the Ontario Veterinary College (referred by our vet) in a couple of weeks, but I don't think she can go that long without at least steroids. Our vet didn't remember treating two of our previous boys with PTs, but it's been years and she's really busy. I'll hopefully be talking to her in the morning to see if we can get her started on prednisone in the interim.

Raven is able to have soft foods like yogurt and applesauce. I'll be mashing up some avocado for her later. Moister foods are on the menu largely because she doesn't remember how water works. She's really going downhill fast.

 

[lilspaz68]

Ask the vet for a dexamethasone injection, this will act fast and last longer than prednisone to bridge the gap.
Where are you located?