Hi all, I'm really hoping someone can help...one of my escape artist girls somehow managed to get her way up to the window in the rat room, found her way through the perspex I use to block it off just in case, got her back leg stuck in a very tiny gap that I'd allowed for circulation and broke it severely. This was on Sunday. As you can imagine I was in a panic when I found her and rushed her to the emergency vet. She's had the entire leg removed, and is now in recovery. While at the vet she chewed through her stitches twice, so they put a stretchy bandage wrap on. I knew she hated it but thought it was for the best. However, overnight last night she somehow managed to wriggle out of that, despite the tape and the fact that it was tight (literally found the entire thing intact in the cage so she didnt even chew it). So I took her back to the vet today, checked out the pain med dosage and upped it.slightly, and she'd chewed her stitches again. They dont want to restitch so have given me manuka honey to apply...and put her in a cone. She hates the cone, and I really dont want it on her...but if she can escape from everything else I'm not sure what to do. I'd love any advice or suggestions, am really sad for her and dont know what to do!
Back leg amputated
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lilspaz68
Well-Known Member
Ok a lot of vets underdose in pain meds, so let's start there. What did they give you, what concentration (mg/ml) is it, how much does she weigh and what is her dose?
What did they use to close the incision?
What did they use to close the incision?
Thank for replying! Oh I didn't realise, that's rubbish - she was originally on 0.6ml Metacam (1.5mg/ml concentration) from the emergency vets which I gave her that evening, but when I took her to the regular vets the following day they said it should be 0.35ml (same concentration) which she's been on today/yesterday. She weighs 260g.
They used sutures to close the wound, apparently because of the location and the amount of movement/how tight it is there. When I took her to the regular vet, they said that the stitches had been done really well, which is why they were reluctant to redo them, as she'd only been able to pull out a couple of the stitches before they put the collar on her.
This morning I've taken the collar off and am watching her constantly - she does keep going for the wound still which is a concern, but she was so unhappy and had a build up of porphyrin I needed to let her out of it. For now I can stop her myself, but she's going to have to go back in the collar when I'm not around or overnight which isn't ideal. Also if the pain meds are too low then I'd love to give her a proper dosage.
Thanks!
They used sutures to close the wound, apparently because of the location and the amount of movement/how tight it is there. When I took her to the regular vet, they said that the stitches had been done really well, which is why they were reluctant to redo them, as she'd only been able to pull out a couple of the stitches before they put the collar on her.
This morning I've taken the collar off and am watching her constantly - she does keep going for the wound still which is a concern, but she was so unhappy and had a build up of porphyrin I needed to let her out of it. For now I can stop her myself, but she's going to have to go back in the collar when I'm not around or overnight which isn't ideal. Also if the pain meds are too low then I'd love to give her a proper dosage.
Thanks!
lilspaz68
Well-Known Member
Your Metacam is definitely 1.5 mg/ml?? If so I'm glad you reduced it because that was WAAY too high and could've damaged her kidneys. Even the dose she's on now is too high.
A good range for Metacam dosing is 0.5 mg/kg to 2 mg/kg. With the low dose for minor inflammation/pain, and the High for crazy emergencies but not to be kept on long term. For most post-op you should use 1 mg/kg.
Your first vet prescribed 0.65 ml and that works out to 3.8 mg/kg.
The reduction with the 2nd vet works out to 2 mg/kg.
So you can give her 0.17 ml daily fr m now on.
My guess is they made the stitches too tight and she is pulling at them. Is it a bit baggy over the incision site or taut? If it's too tight she feels it everytime she moves and she's licking and pulling at it. Can you get a pic of the incision and how much it is open?
What is she doing when she goes at it?
A good range for Metacam dosing is 0.5 mg/kg to 2 mg/kg. With the low dose for minor inflammation/pain, and the High for crazy emergencies but not to be kept on long term. For most post-op you should use 1 mg/kg.
Your first vet prescribed 0.65 ml and that works out to 3.8 mg/kg.
The reduction with the 2nd vet works out to 2 mg/kg.
So you can give her 0.17 ml daily fr m now on.
My guess is they made the stitches too tight and she is pulling at them. Is it a bit baggy over the incision site or taut? If it's too tight she feels it everytime she moves and she's licking and pulling at it. Can you get a pic of the incision and how much it is open?
What is she doing when she goes at it?
Yep, just double checked it - it's def 1.5mg/ml. I'm glad it was reduced then, it looked like a lot when I first drew it - one of my boys definitely didn't have that much when he was recovering from a tumour. I just assumed an amputated leg was worse. I'll reduce it even further as you say then, thanks very much.
It's definitely taut over the incision site - I took a couple of pics , attached, I hope they're not too blurry. It looks pretty open to me, but whenever my other rats have had issues they've been good about not chewing them, so this is the first time I've had a rat with issues and I've heard that it's not always a problem if the incision is open as they heal well. When she goes for it though she tends to clean it, which I've been allowing, but then she starts pulling at the thread that she's pulled out, and I have to intervene.
Because of the manuka honey I've been asked toapply this eve, I'm going to have to put her back in the collar for a little bit as I imagine she'll just lick it all off again.
Thanks so much for your help on this!
It's definitely taut over the incision site - I took a couple of pics , attached, I hope they're not too blurry. It looks pretty open to me, but whenever my other rats have had issues they've been good about not chewing them, so this is the first time I've had a rat with issues and I've heard that it's not always a problem if the incision is open as they heal well. When she goes for it though she tends to clean it, which I've been allowing, but then she starts pulling at the thread that she's pulled out, and I have to intervene.
Because of the manuka honey I've been asked toapply this eve, I'm going to have to put her back in the collar for a little bit as I imagine she'll just lick it all off again.
Thanks so much for your help on this!
Attachments
lilspaz68
Well-Known Member
From the pictures it doesn't look like they did the best job. I'll put some links here of Inca's amputation. Was the break lower in her leg? Does she seem painful in her pelvis?
Inca home the night of her surgery
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/rattiluv/Inca and Tria/dec24Inca.jpg2
Running around
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/rattiluv/Inca and Tria/dec24Inca2.jpg
Inca home the night of her surgery
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/rattiluv/Inca and Tria/dec24Inca.jpg2
Running around
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/rattiluv/Inca and Tria/dec24Inca2.jpg
Well that certainly looks cleaner/healthier than my poor girl. How soon afterwards was the pic of her running around taken? Yes, it was quite low on the leg so it sort of bumps out. I don't think she's having pelvis pain - when she's not confined is very happy to run around, and no complaints/flinching when I touch areas around the wound.
I actually took her back to the vet today - sent them some pics and they called to come in. Apparently on Mon her regular vet wasn't in due to lockdown, and I think the vet that was in is less rat-experienced. Today the regular vet cleaned the wound, removed some of the loose thread from the stitches she's chewed, and applied a bandage. Of course, she's just managed to worm her way out of the bandage within a few hours...but only seems interested in cleaning the wound, not reopening the rest of it. I'm assuming it maybe was infected, and after the vet flushed it today she was less concerned with it.
I'm going back on Sat for a checkup but feeling a lot better about her now, though I plan to call them again tomorrow to figure out how best to keep the part that's open clean, as it's obviously going to need to be left open. I'm using Baytril but think it would be good to clean it regularly too.
Thank you for your help with this, I very much appreciate chatting to someone who's more rat experienced!
I actually took her back to the vet today - sent them some pics and they called to come in. Apparently on Mon her regular vet wasn't in due to lockdown, and I think the vet that was in is less rat-experienced. Today the regular vet cleaned the wound, removed some of the loose thread from the stitches she's chewed, and applied a bandage. Of course, she's just managed to worm her way out of the bandage within a few hours...but only seems interested in cleaning the wound, not reopening the rest of it. I'm assuming it maybe was infected, and after the vet flushed it today she was less concerned with it.
I'm going back on Sat for a checkup but feeling a lot better about her now, though I plan to call them again tomorrow to figure out how best to keep the part that's open clean, as it's obviously going to need to be left open. I'm using Baytril but think it would be good to clean it regularly too.
Thank you for your help with this, I very much appreciate chatting to someone who's more rat experienced!
lilspaz68
Well-Known Member
You can easily make up isotonic saline to rinse the open part of the incision. Just find a recipe online with boiled water and salt.
Most incisions are multi layers. The layer you see is just the skin closure. Then there's usually internal dissolvable sutures to close the muscle layer. As long as those internal sutures stay closed, you rinse the open incision, keep her on the baytril and keep her cage as clean as possible it should heal by 2nd intention, where the flesh granulates inwards until it's closed. It takes longer than fresh edges of incisions sealed together but it works
Most incisions are multi layers. The layer you see is just the skin closure. Then there's usually internal dissolvable sutures to close the muscle layer. As long as those internal sutures stay closed, you rinse the open incision, keep her on the baytril and keep her cage as clean as possible it should heal by 2nd intention, where the flesh granulates inwards until it's closed. It takes longer than fresh edges of incisions sealed together but it works
ElliotM.774
Member
I'm so sorry about your rat, I hope she's recovering well, i have a rat about 2 weeks with a VERY swollen back ankle, he doesn't move that foot or use any of those toes. I'm very worried that it wont get better, how much was the amputation before any insurance? i would like to start saving incase things come to the worst
lilspaz68
Well-Known Member
This is an old post so you are not likely to get a reply. It's best to make your own post rather than hijack an old ones.
