Are my new rats carrying a virus that is killing off the rest of my mischief?

[lilspaz68]

You definitely need to handle your sickies. You need to hold them, feeling their body condition, and listen to their lungs, to ensure they are the same or improving. Keep records on all your rats. Dealing with a virus is stressful and exhausting and records can help.

On how fast it will go through your colony depends on your setup. Are all your rats in one room? Is it a smaller room or a large room and some cages are far apart?

How many rats are showing symptoms, even just sneezing? How long has it been now since the initial patient zero(s) came into your home?

I actually managed to keep 2 rooms of rats safe...very hard to do. The sickies were in the livingroom. I would come home from work, change to different clothes I had carefully put aside, grab medications, anything I needed right away. I'd go into the other room, medicate, check everyone, top up food and waters, and leave as soon as possible. Then I could deal with my sickies after. I was lucky and it didn't spread.

As for testing. Get all the info for your vet, order the test kits, and let them do the blood. Make sure it's a rat that's at least 3 weeks post-exposure and you might want to test several rats. Check what each panel tests for, you want to make sure to get SDA, Sendai, CARB at least.

 

[fallblossom]

All my rats are in the living room. The sickies (your term) are upstairs in a different room and they are still both sick. The one rat is not getting better despite being on zithro and enro but she isn't slowing down nor does she have labored breathing. I know she will never sound normal and I've not seen this before in a rat. She sneeze loudly and has very audible myco sounds which three of my 27 month old sibling rats have who also have HED. One 13 month old rat still has a lump in his throat. Some of the other rats sneeze.

Are my 'sickies' still contagious? My question regarding wearing a mask was to prevent me from carrying the virus in my nasal passages but since it also sticks to clothing, etc. it would serve no purpose perhaps.

Should my rats who aren't sneezing be on enro by itself or enro and doxy? This I also need to know. If combination abs are a better choice then I'll use them. What meds can I give my sickies since they are not responding to zithro and enro? Should I add amoxi or swtch over to erithro (hard on the gut) or add flagyl? Why aren't the babies presenting with labored breathing?

Regarding my rats being three weeks post exposure, I will have one sickie tested, one 18 month old female, and one 13 month old male tested. Is post exposure calculated after the first day I brought the sickies home?

 

[lilspaz68]

Test rats that showed signs of illness, and recovered. Each rat will be exposed in its own time. For now you can medicate and take care of the sick room rats last at night, and avoid your livingroom rats after. The next morning any possible virus will be dead and you can handle and take care of the healthy group. Baytril and Zithro can both be given once a day.

These viruses are hard to cure and take weeks to get improvement. I usually medicate for a month.

If you are able to, start any older, or compromised rats on baytril and add zithro if they show any symptoms.

Make sure your baytril is dosed at 30 mg/kg and your zithro at 20 mg/kg for once a day dosing.

Babies often have a delayed reaction to viruses. Their moms immune system gives them a temporary immune system until their own develops and this is when some babies will start to show symptoms.

 

[fallblossom]

I've been dosing twice per day. Is that overkill? I've been dosing baytril 15mg/kg bid for everyone and adding zithro 15mg/kg bid (for symptomatic rats) and 15mg/kg + 30mg/kg for the sickies. I wonder if I should change one of the meds for the sickies since the one baby still sneezes loudly. BTW it takes 45 minutes to medicate everyone which I do twice per day.

What if the baby rats never recover? Does this mean they have to stay upstairs for the rest of their lives?

 

[lilspaz68]

twice per day is good if your rats had normal respiratory infections, but you want to limit contact so as to minimize any spread to the healthy rat. Use 30 mg/kg for the baytril, and 20 mg/kg for the zithro, once a day dosing...end of day would be best so you can avoid your healthy rats for the rest of the night.

My plague babies sneezed for 5-6 weeks. This is normal. The virus SHEDS 1 week after exposure. There is NO carrier state with Sendai and SDA. If they survive then they are now immune to SDA. Once they have shed and have recovered, then they can be mixed into the regular population.

How many rats of your 27 rats are actually symptomatic?

 

[fallblossom]

• Since my plague rats are still sneezing this means they have not recovered, right? Keep in mind they are not getting socialized.
  
• Does once a day dosing work for animals with faster metabolisms? I mean, is it as effective as dosing twice per day?
• How does a rat go from presenting with labored breathing to not presenting with it after being medicated? I thought labored breathing was death sentence and was indicative of pneumonia (secondary infection from SDA in my case)?
  
• Will my 13-month old rat's throat lump ever go way? It is hard when palpated.

I hope this thread will help folks who are going through this with their own colonies who don't want to come forward for fear of exposure and embarrassment or those in the future in the same situation.

 

[lilspaz68]

First they go through the week of the virus, then they go through the recovery from the secondary infections which kick in soon after the virus has shed. These secondary infections are pretty scary but generally if you go through a week or so without losing anyone suddenly it just becomes a long haul treatment. You are in lockdown right now and have to stay that way for at least a month.

Twice a day dosing for the baytril is preferable (Zithro is once a day regularly) but since you have a possibly healthy group of rats you are desperately trying to keep the virus away from until ALL your infected rats shed the virus and are no longer contagious, it is the best thing. Metabolisms have nothing to do with the drug as such its how long the antibiotic is effective in the body is what makes it a twice a day or once a day option. for eg. amoxicillin, clavamox MUST be given twice a day, but Cipro, Doxy, Baytril can be given once.

The lump should go away in a few days.

Laboured breathing is not a death sentence, you might be thinking of open mouthed gasping...now that often is a terrible sign, and death can easily follow.

forget socialization, it can wait. Helping them survive is key.

 

[Dena]

Just curious what the outcome of this was? Did all the rats survive? Were the ones tested positive? Were the babies socialized and integrated? What are the lasting effects?

I haven't really heard of these viruses before. Well, I think I heard of SDA, but didn't really know what it was. This is really good to know, and scary to read about. Does anyone know if this is a problem in Texas? I do a daily body and lung check on mine (much to their disapproval), since pepper died. I'm really scared to lose one to a breathing issue like pepper. That's why it was a shock to me when cookie died. But I'm super curious about this case.

 

[SQ]

I haven't really heard of these viruses before. Well, I think I heard of SDA, but didn't really know what it was. This is really good to know, and scary to read about. Does anyone know if this is a problem in Texas? I do a daily body and lung check on mine (much to their disapproval), since pepper died. I'm really scared to lose one to a breathing issue like pepper. That's why it was a shock to me when cookie died. But I'm super curious about this case.

Yes doing a daily or weekly health check (see Reference Thread) for each rattie is very important as is spending time with them daily so that you notice any small change in behaviour
These viruses are everywhere …. and since they are airborne u[you can bring them home on your clothing or in your nose. This is just one of several good reasons to stay out of stores that sell animals.
See Quarantine in the Reference Thread and you can read up on several of the diseases if you type in a search for breathing at ratguide.com