late-life surgery?

My dear Lizzie has developed a couple of rear-end mammary tumours at the great age of 2 years 11 months. She is otherwise in good health, apart from the general frailty that comes with old age. Has anyone had rats survive tumour surgery at such an advanced age?

35 months of age? Its sadly very doubtful she would make it through surgery. How big and involved and fast growing are these tumours?

I fear you're right - I had a rat survive surgery at 2 1/2 yrs, but there's such a big difference between 30 and 35 months.
Lizzie has two tumours, one about 1 cubic cm. and the other slightly larger - the latter appears to have more than one lobule. Like most benign mammary tumours, they seem quite loosely attached to the underlying tissues.
I will be taking Lizzie to the vet for a follow-up tomorrow and to make a final decision re surgery. Has anyone heard of meds that slow hormonal tumour growth? Cabergoline is known to slow some mammary tumours when there is an underlying PT, but I don't know if it would work for mammary tumours alone. (?????) Plus the cost of this drug has soared in the past year, at least for purchases through "official" veterinary channels; my vet says an 18 day supply would cost over C $800!

Lise Patterson said:

Cabergoline is known to slow some mammary tumours when there is an underlying PT, but I don't know if it would work for mammary tumours alone. (?????) Plus the cost of this drug has soared in the past year, at least for purchases through "official" veterinary channels; my vet says an 18 day supply would cost over C $800!

Click to expand...

According to the rat guide cabergoline is use to try to prevent more, while tamoxifen is used to slow down or stop growth http://ratguide.com/health/neoplasia/mammary_tumor.php

I buy cabergoline (for pt) from the pharmacist with a prescription from my vet …. the last time I bought it, I believe it was approx. $25 - $30 a pill and rats usually take about 1/2 a pill every 3 days which would be a bit over $100 - $145 for 18 days. http://ratguide.com/meds/central_nervous_system_drugs/cabergoline.php
Maybe your vet meant 18 pills? Because otherwise you are talking about approx. $200 a pill …… unless you have a very large rattie

For PT treatment I just cannot afford cabergoline so I use the slightly less effective but much more affordable bromocriptine.
I've never found anything to slow down tumour growth but hopefully your little lady's tumours are small enough that they won't grow quickly and affect her natural lifespan.

Thanks to both. I told the vet about SQ's experience with getting cabergoline pills through a regular pharmacy...looking into this. When last prescribed this drug, I got it from a compounding pharmacy that charged $190 for an 18 day supply; that was bad enough, but the price has since increased more than four-fold for some reason. The product compounded by experts might be best absorbed, but that's no help if it's not affordable. Re Tamoxifen, this is reportedly useful in cases of malignant mammary tumours - Lizzie's appears to be benign.

sometimes a generic version is available which the pharmacist seemed to think was the same as the brand name

I used to feed flax seed to one of our girls Luna. Can’t find where I read about this now but this did seem to keep the size of the tumours manageable for a few months at least. I think flax seed oil also works. I used to mix this into a wet mix for her and she loved it. She was always a tiny little thing, the ‘runt’ really, but she ended up outliving both of her sisters by almost a year.

I've used cabergoline for my rat Nibbles who had PT and it extended his life by 18 months. The stuff tastes horrible and we had to force the .1ml in his mouth every third day but it was worth giving him a great quality of life. After 8 months of dosing we were able to give it to him every 5th day with the same theraputic benefit.

Have you tried Wedgewood Pharmacy? They are located in the US but I'm sure you can have them fill the script. A "lifetime" supply of a one of their higher concentrations was exactly $300.00 and we still have a lot left over after Nibbles passed away in July. Wedgewood also had a concentration at 0.5ml but it was $600.00 ...so we dealt with the extra .5ml at the cheaper price.

Ask your vet if you can use Wedgewood Pharmacy in New Jersey USA for the med. If you are comfortable with this, I can offer to send you what I have left of Nibbles med if you wanted to try it first before dropping $300 in the event that it doesn't help your girl.

Send me a message and let me know. I need to check if it is expired (it should be fine) but if it isn't I would be happy to send it at no cost, hopefully shipping isn't too crazy depending on if you are in Canada vise the US. I'd rather someone have it and use it for their baby since it was so expensive and we still have a lot left. It's Marshmellow flavor but it has a horrible aftertaste but 5 minutes and you can easily dose your rattie with a quick squirt to the side of the mouth...there may be lots of drooling and yuck yuck face (followed by the yuck yuck dance) but it's fast and they get over it pretty quickly.

Let me know!

I found the bottle of Cabergoline but the Use By date says October 9 2019. I can't say if this is accurate as far as whether the med has retained its potency since Oct 9 should have been around the time that we would run low and need to reorder another batch. It's compounded in almond oil and I did some research and it should have a 2 year shelf life. I've only had this bottle for 7 months. I have it if you are interested in trying it and I'll keep it stashed for you in case you want it.

Thanks so much for your kind offer PiddlePod.
I owe you and others an update regarding my Lizzie. I came to conclude that cabergoline was unlikely to help - Lizzie had mammary tumours but no evidence of PT. And while cabergoline might help prevent such tumours, I found no reporting to suggest that it shrinks existing tumours. Because the tumours were advancing fast, and my vet found Lizzie to be otherwise healthy, I took the difficult decision to put her through surgery. I feared my independent-minded Lizzie would not last long once the tumours robbed her of all mobility.
Lizzie had her surgery 5 days ago, and I'm thrilled to report that she pulled through amazingly well. She's having to re-learn to walk normally, as the tumours had bent her hind legs outward and forced her to slide along on the inside of her legs. But she's made good progress and is already walking quite normally, especially on the left hind leg. She acquired mild respiratory symptoms following the surgery, but antibiotics seem to be keeping a lid on these.
Lizzie is one tough cookie, and she serves to remind us that age only tells part of the story. But this sure was a nail-biter.
Thanks again to all who offered wisdom, help and kind wishes.

Wonderful News!!!

I hope she has a full recovery and a long happy life

Hooray! I'll echo SQ in saying that this is great news! Wishing your Lizzie a long and happy life, too! Gentle scritches and cuddles for your little old lady and wishes for her speedy recovery

Ah, I'm so glad to hear Lizzie pulled through her surgery~ Some rats are just strong, stubborn little bugs. Fingers crossed the remainder of her recovery goes unhindered!!

Hey there Lise, how is Lizzie rat doing with her recovery? Hopefully she is all healed up by now and feeling better !

I just returned to this thread for a follow-up and noticed PiddlePod's question above - sorry to be so late in responding PiddlePod.
Lizzie live for 3 1/2 months beyond her surgery, most of this time with a good quality of life. She reached the ripe old age of 3 years 2 months before end-stage respiratory disease claimed her. I will post a tribute to Lizzie in the Memorials section.
Thanks again to all who shared advice on Lizzie's behalf.

Lise Patterson said:

I just returned to this thread for a follow-up and noticed PiddlePod's question above - sorry to be so late in responding PiddlePod.
Lizzie live for 3 1/2 months beyond her surgery, most of this time with a good quality of life. She reached the ripe old age of 3 years 2 months before end-stage respiratory disease claimed her. I will post a tribute to Lizzie in the Memorials section.
Thanks again to all who shared advice on Lizzie's behalf.

Click to expand...

I'm so sorry for your loss of little Lizzie. Wow, 3 years is a long and wonderful life for a rattie. You were truly an awesome rat parent and took excellent care of your little girl. I'm so glad to hear that the surgery gave her additional time with you and maintained her quality of life. I'm glad you listened to your gut and had the surgery done. I think it was worth it to give Lizzie that extra time.

Hang in there ((hugs))

I am very sorry for your loss {{hugs}}