Rat making weird breathing noises?

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How is your little lady today? ❤
Not lethargic, no puffed fur, but still has bad breathing noises :(
She definitely is slowly getting better, not worse, and I had here running around with my other rats last night and she didn't get tired and lay down like she has before.
 
You guys are actually so supportive thank you so much! Seriously y'all are awesome. Janny is eating and drinking which I know is a great sign! All I had this morning was pudding so today after class I got her some baby food.
The scale at the vet was broken so she weighed the carrier on the dog scale with her in it and without her in it and subtracted to get 1.1 pound, but she said not to trust that number......ok?

1.1lb sounds BIG for a female rat. To put that into perspective, that's just under 500g. Some of my males weigh that much. Maybe your lovely girl is just a big girl (which is totally fine!), but I would recheck that number just to be sure. I know this is late, but I ended up investing in a scale from Target. I bought it for, like, $20. Definitely worth it, as I can accurately weigh my rats and it is small enough that is it portable. Only thing is, squirmy rats are squirmy. I'm sure Amazon has one for cheaper. The scale I got allows me to switch from g, to oz, to lb, and a few others. I prefer grams, but that's just because I'm a science nerd.

Anyways, I hope she's feeling better! Any steps in the right direction, no matter how small, are still advancements. She'll get there soon. Mistakes happen, so don't beat yourself up over it.
 
1.1lb sounds BIG for a female rat. To put that into perspective, that's just under 500g. Some of my males weigh that much. Maybe your lovely girl is just a big girl (which is totally fine!), but I would recheck that number just to be sure. I know this is late, but I ended up investing in a scale from Target. I bought it for, like, $20. Definitely worth it, as I can accurately weigh my rats and it is small enough that is it portable. Only thing is, squirmy rats are squirmy. I'm sure Amazon has one for cheaper. The scale I got allows me to switch from g, to oz, to lb, and a few others. I prefer grams, but that's just because I'm a science nerd.

Anyways, I hope she's feeling better! Any steps in the right direction, no matter how small, are still advancements. She'll get there soon. Mistakes happen, so don't beat yourself up over it.
Thank you, and yes 1lb is definitely not how much she weighs. She's big but she's not 1lb. Ill definitely take a look at getting a little scale, thank uoi!
 
Update. We're at a point where she's not getting better or worse. Her breathing sounds not good but she's eating, drinking, and playing perfectly fine. She also looks perfectly fine. I don't know what to do. Do I need different medicine? My job sucks so the last vet visit was my entire paycheck so I'm trying to avoid that if possible
 
Please update with good news! ❤ I hope that your sweet little lady is doing well!
She isn't doing better or worse. She still sounds bad but is being herself other than that. I'm not sure where to go from here, the only problem still occuring is the noise
 
She's on baytril and doxy right? I'd suggest heading back to the vet to see if you can try a baytril and azithromyacin combo to see if that nips it. I think radiographs may be on order to see what is going on in her lungs and check her heart. Or we could try a dose of Lasix (diuretic) to see if there is any improvement which could indicate a heart issue or something like pneumonia (azithromyacin and baytril work well for pneumonia if that is the case). She could also have some lung scarring that is causing her noisy breathing. It's difficult to say w/o x-rays. Can you take a video of her breathing with audio of the noises and post it here?

What does the noise sound like now? Is it a whooping sound (like a guinea pig or "monkey noises) or is it a nasally whistle or wheeze? Have you rat phoned her in the past couple of days and are the noises coming from her nose or the lungs?

SQ, Jorats and LilSpaz will likely have better advice on how to proceed. Hopefully they will chime in. ❤
 
I second the azythramycin. It's often better than the doxy. Sometimes doxy just isn't string enough. Keep baytril and add azythramycin. Also, has the vet said anything about possibly nebulizing with a saline solution? Sometimes it can help and may not need to be done but a couple of times. Sometimes the vet can loan you a nebulizer, or an oxygen cylinder works too.
 
Nebulizing is a great idea, too! But you'll need to drop around $90 for a basic compressor and nebulizer kit (Amazon sells the PARI VIOS Green kit for about $89 - $100, unless the vet has rentals available suggested by Dena! ). Your vet can prescribe Albuterol Sulfate solution for inhalation that can be picked up at any human pharmacy and will run you about $15 - $20 for 30 days of medication.

Most ratties aren't fans of being stuck in a container for the time it takes for a treatment (about 15 minutes) but since you aren't nebulizing an antibiotic, you could nebulize her in the cage...you'll just need to follow her around w/ the nebulizer cup lol...I've done this before with Beans and he will actually stick his nose deep into the nose of the nebulizer cup and take some good sniffs during cage treatments. You could also bring her out on your lap or in a cozy hammock on your lap and do the treatment there.

OR if you have a ProAir albuterol inhaler, you can use that too! Get Janny cozy in a hammock cube, give the ProAir a couple really good shakes, give her 4 puffs into the hammock and keep her hunkered down in there for about 2 minutes. You can nebulize or use an inhaler up to 4 times a day. Albuterol Sulfate for nebulizers is compounded in a solution of 0.9% saline. Saline also comes in hypertonic solutions of 3% and 7% but you should always use these along with albuterol. Sometimes the hypertonic saline solutions can cause bronchospasm, so having the albuterol added to the solution will prevent this. If you use a hypertonic saline, I would suggest using the 3% as opposed to the 7%. 7% can cause eye irritation and has the potential to cause further inflammation of the lungs in susceptible individuals.

If anything, I'd suggest talking to your vet first and figuring out a game plan before buying a nebulizing kit. Nebulizers are always awesome to have on hand but if you're in a financial crunch, I'd only pick one up if you absolutely needed it and planned to use it. For now, Baytril and Zithro may be all that is needed. If she isn't on prednisone already, Janny may also benefit from a couple of days of meloxicam to draw down some of that inflammation in her lungs. Prednisone is also good option too, but not at the same time as meloxicam. Meloxicam or any NSAID cannot be taken at the same time as prednisone or prednisolone. If you were to switch from prednisone to meloxicamor vice versa, you would need to stop either med for 72 hours before starting the other.

Please keep us updated and try to see if you can work around having to bring Janny in again by talking to one of the vet techs to see if they can call in a compounded script for Azithromyacin at a pet pharmacy. I recommend asking for the highest concentration possible so that you have the tiniest dose to give. Wedgewood Pet Pharmacy in NJ (they ship) can compound azithromyacin at 200mg/ml which gives you a twice daily dose of about 0.06ml.

Here is the website for wedgewood: https://www.wedgewoodpharmacy.com/
 
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I actually held pepper in my lap, and just held a neb mask in front of him. In a pinch, you can actually take a Dixie cup, and cut a hole to fit the proair in, and hold it in front of their face, and keep it there for a couple mins. If he seems in distress over either, I'd either change how it's done, or just not fight with it. Some is better than NONE, but it's not going to be beneficial to stress the rat and make her breathe faster or panic. Prednisone, or prednisolone is actually probably not a bad idea. But beware, steroids used over a longer period than a couple days can lower the immune system, and has to be tapered off to stop. Also, if you go the nebulizer route, check at pharmacies, or ask friends if they have one they can loan, or rent to you. Albuterol sulfate is around $15 bucks for a 30 day supply (or at least last time I checked). I get it from my husband. LOL. Proair is far more expensive at $65. Again, you can ask friends if maybe they have one you can borrow and try before you go buy it. If you're in the US, try goodrx and you can check local pharmacies for prices of meds. I think if you got some results with the baytril/doxy combo, you may have better luck with the baytril/zithro combo. Hope your baby is doing better. Also, you may not have to take her back in to get meds or add meds. Just call first and ask.
 
She's on baytril and doxy right? I'd suggest heading back to the vet to see if you can try a baytril and azithromyacin combo to see if that nips it. I think radiographs may be on order to see what is going on in her lungs and check her heart. Or we could try a dose of Lasix (diuretic) to see if there is any improvement which could indicate a heart issue or something like pneumonia (azithromyacin and baytril work well for pneumonia if that is the case). She could also have some lung scarring that is causing her noisy breathing. It's difficult to say w/o x-rays. Can you take a video of her breathing with audio of the noises and post it here?

What does the noise sound like now? Is it a whooping sound (like a guinea pig or "monkey noises) or is it a nasally whistle or wheeze? Have you rat phoned her in the past couple of days and are the noises coming from her nose or the lungs?

SQ, Jorats and LilSpaz will likely have better advice on how to proceed. Hopefully they will chime in. ❤
I second the azythramycin. It's often better than the doxy. Sometimes doxy just isn't string enough. Keep baytril and add azythramycin. Also, has the vet said anything about possibly nebulizing with a saline solution? Sometimes it can help and may not need to be done but a couple of times. Sometimes the vet can loan you a nebulizer, or an oxygen cylinder works too.
Guys, I'm so mad. I went to give Janny her medicine and heard breathing that wasn't coming from her. My THIRD rat, Daya, sounds like shes developing a URI.
I'll check on her tomorrow, if she still sounds this way I'll move forward with figuring that out.
For now, here is Janny yesterday: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-EgVg-4yxlP9u7B0QOKaTOTT2iAKTPgN/view?usp=sharing (ignore my laughing, I found it funny that she inhaled the entire piece of cake before I could even hit record)
and here is Janny today: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-HBjSC3zQhigms35UGtLMgikWKnBI-hA/view?usp=sharing
She sounds way different. Yesterday sounded congested, today sounded..? Not sure. You'll have to listen closely, it sounded like little cries :(
If Janny really is developing pneumonia, is it contagious? Janny and Daya are bonded and are always together. Could she have spread something to her? Ugghh...
Should I head back to the vet with Janny? The vet I went to I didn't like very much. I didn't like how she handled Janny. You should have 4 fingers under the rat to pick them up, and one on top, but I watched her pick her up with only 1 finger supporting her body. Janny is such a sweetheart it made me sad to see how she administered the medicine as well
Thank you guys so much for helping me

edit; I rat phoned Daya, her bad noises are coming from her nose. I also rat phoned Janny but didn't hear any noises other than normal breathing. I don't understand why she was making bad noises an hour ago but none now
 
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I haven't had a moment to listen to the recordings, but I will give you my opinion on your question regarding Janny and her possible pneumonia. Is it contagious? It depends. In addition to mycoplasmosis causing lung infections (such as pneumonia), there are dozens of gram positive and gram negative genera of bacteria that can contribute to the development of pneumonia (an infection that caused by bacteria or a virus) in rats and humans. The infection causes inflammation in the lungs which leads to the airsacs at the end of the bronchial tree to become filled with fluid or pus and may affect both lungs (double pneumonia), one lung (single pneumonia) or it can be contained in certain lobes (lobar pneumonia).

Mycoplasma is a sneaky, unusual and nasty little bacteria. It is in the genus of mollicute bacteria, unlike other bacteria that often have a cell well, mycobacterium lack a true cell wall around their cell membranes. This lack of a cell wall actually works to the bacteria's advantage and makes it difficult for antibiotics to penetrate and kill mycobacterium. Most modern antibiotics are amalgamated so that they specifically target and attack via cell wall synthesis but if the bacterium lacks a cell wall to attack, the antibiotic does a pretty crappy job of killing and completely eliminating mollicute bacteria from the body and tissues. This is why macrolide antibiotics like azithromyacin and tetracyclines like doxycycline work really well on mycoplasmosis. The class of these two medications are examples of bacterostatic antibiotics since they work by impeding the growth of bacteria by inhibiting bacterial protein synthesis. This method of blocking protein synthesis disrupts how amino acids bind, basically breaking the amino acid chain and starving the bacteria of energy/food. This in turn slows their growth and starvation eventually kills them off.

Bactericidal antibiotics target and kill by inhibiting cell wall synthesis; a bacteria with a damaged cell wall cannot undergo binary fission and this will cause the bacteria to die. Some examples of bactericidal antibiotics are penicillins (eg amoxicillin) and fluoroquinolones (eg enrofloxicin/baytril). There are also antibiotics that have both bactericidal and bacterostatic activity such as ciprofloxacin, which is also a class of fluoroquinolone. There's even debate as to whether giving a bactericidal antibiotic and bacterostatic antibiotic together can negate the benefit of both antibiotics and make them less effective or render them inactive. However in some situations combinations can be synergistic. For example combining doxycycline (bacterostatic) and baytril (bactericidal) seem to work well together, but combining something like amoxicillin clavanate (bactericidal) and doxycycline (bacterostatic) could potentially buffer the action of amoxicillin clavanate which can make it less effective or may render it ineffective. So it's always a good idea to speak to a veterinarian before mixing and matching different antibiotics since doing so could cause the medication to be ineffective or it may lead to antibiotic resistance.

Okay, enough about how antibiotics work lecture lol sorry!... so, is pneumonia contagious? If it is caused by a secondary infection (a secondary infection is an infection that occurs during or after the treatment of an active infection) due to an animals resistance that has been compromised or an immunodeficiency created from the stress of the body fighting an active and/or untreated mycobacterium infection, the answer is "possibly".

Secondary infections, like any infection, can be spread through the aspiration of respiratory droplets containing the pathogen (eg streptococcus spp.) or via the mouth and eyes. It's important to remember that the majority of rats carry mycobacterium (mycoplasma, myco) and the only environment you will find mycoplasma-free rats would be in a laboratory setting. With that said, it is safe to assume that Janny and your other girls are all carrying mycoplasma pulmonis and that they all have an active infection (which may or may not display symptoms).

As you know, rats are stoic but very hardy creatures that are incredible at disguising illness for a period of time. Until the infection begins to severely impact their systems (respiratory, cardiovascular, etc. ) we usually won't see many outward signs except for maybe excessive sneezing and porphyrin production and/or nasal congestion. When an infection is this advanced to where we are seeing clear symptoms, we are opening the door to numerous, opportunistic bacterium in an already compromised animal. When this happens it is called a secondary infection.

What ever caused the secondary infection in Janny (if that is the case here), regardless of all of your girls having mycoplasmosis, Janny's infection could possibly be passed to her cage mates via sneezes, food, urine, etc. There's not much you can do to prevent that from occurring and I would strongly advise against anyone separating their rats (ofcourse unless otherwise directed by a veterinarian) since that can cause additional and unwanted stress, exasperating symptoms and advancing the infection.

With all of that said, my advice would be to begin Janny on azithromyacin (have it compounded by Wedgewood at 200mg/ml) and enrofloxicin (baytril). I would also simultaneously treat your other girls with a doxycycline and baytril combination to nip what sounds like an upper respiratory infection before it becomes a lower respiratory infection. Janny and the ladies should be on these meds for 6 to 8 weeks and I would lean more toward 8 weeks over 6.

I hope that this helps for now and I will get back to you after I have a chance to review the videos if I think of any other suggestions! Lots of smooches and scritches to Janny and the girls! ❤
 
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I haven't had a moment to listen to the recordings, but I will give you my opinion on your question regarding Janny and her possible pneumonia. Is it contagious? It depends. In addition to mycoplasmosis causing lung infections (such as pneumonia), there are dozens of gram positive and gram negative genera of bacteria that can contribute to the development of pneumonia (an infection that caused by bacteria or a virus) in rats and humans. The infection causes inflammation in the lungs which leads to the airsacs at the end of the bronchial tree to become filled with fluid or pus and may affect both lungs (double pneumonia), one lung (single pneumonia) or it can be contained in certain lobes (lobar pneumonia).

Mycoplasma is a sneaky, unusual and nasty little bacteria. It is in the genus of mollicute bacteria, unlike other bacteria that often have a cell well, mycobacterium lack a true cell wall around their cell membranes. This lack of a cell wall actually works to the bacteria's advantage and makes it difficult for antibiotics to penetrate and kill mycobacterium. Most modern antibiotics are amalgamated so that they specifically target and attack via cell wall synthesis but if the bacterium lacks a cell wall to attack, the antibiotic does a pretty crappy job of killing and completely eliminating mollicute bacteria from the body and tissues. This is why macrolide antibiotics like azithromyacin and tetracyclines like doxycycline work really well on mycoplasmosis. The class of these two medications are examples of bacterostatic antibiotics since they work by impeding the growth of bacteria by inhibiting bacterial protein synthesis. This method of blocking protein synthesis disrupts how amino acids bind, basically breaking the amino acid chain and starving the bacteria of energy/food. This in turn slows their growth and starvation eventually kills them off.

Bactericidal antibiotics target and kill by inhibiting cell wall synthesis; a bacteria with a damaged cell wall cannot undergo binary fission and this will cause the bacteria to die. Some examples of bactericidal antibiotics are penicillins (eg amoxicillin) and fluoroquinolones (eg enrofloxicin/baytril). There are also antibiotics that have both bactericidal and bacterostatic activity such as ciprofloxacin, which is also a class of fluoroquinolone. There's even debate as to whether giving a bactericidal antibiotic and bacterostatic antibiotic together can negate the benefit of both antibiotics and make them less effective or render them inactive. However in some situations combinations can be synergistic. For example combining doxycycline (bacterostatic) and baytril (bactericidal) seem to work well together, but combining something like amoxicillin clavanate (bactericidal) and doxycycline (bacterostatic) could potentially buffer the action of amoxicillin clavanate which can make it less effective or may render it ineffective. So it's always a good idea to speak to a veterinarian before mixing and matching different antibiotics since doing so could cause the medication to be ineffective or it may lead to antibiotic resistance.

Okay, enough about how antibiotics work lecture lol sorry!... so, is pneumonia contagious? If it is caused by a secondary infection (a secondary infection is an infection that occurs during or after the treatment of an active infection) due to an animals resistance that has been compromised or an immunodeficiency created from the stress of the body fighting an active and/or untreated mycobacterium infection, the answer is "possibly".

Secondary infections, like any infection, can be spread through the aspiration of respiratory droplets containing the pathogen (eg streptococcus spp.) or via the mouth and eyes. It's important to remember that the majority of rats carry mycobacterium (mycoplasma, myco) and the only environment you will find mycoplasma-free rats would be in a laboratory setting. With that said, it is safe to assume that Janny and your other girls are all carrying mycoplasma pulmonis and that they all have an active infection (which may or may not display symptoms).

As you know, rats are stoic but very hardy creatures that are incredible at disguising illness for a period of time. Until the infection begins to severely impact their systems (respiratory, cardiovascular, etc. ) we usually won't see many outward signs except for maybe excessive sneezing or nasal congestion. When an infection is this advanced to where we are seeing clear symptoms, we are opening the door to numerous, opportunistic bacterium in an already compromised animal. When this happens it is called a secondary infection.

What ever caused the secondary infection in Janny (if that is the case here), regardless of all of your girls having mycoplasmosis, Janny's infection could possibly be passed to her cage mates via sneezes, food, urine, etc. There's not much you can do to prevent that from occurring and I would strongly advise against anyone separating their rats (ofcourse unless otherwise directed by a veterinarian) since that can cause additional and unwanted stress, exasperating symptoms and advancing the infection.

With all of that said, my advice would be to begin Janny on azithromyacin (have it compounded by Wedgewood at 200mg/ml) and enrofloxicin (baytril). I would also simultaneously treat your other girls with a doxycycline and baytril combination to nip what sounds like an upper respiratory infection before it becomes a lower respiratory infection. Janny and the ladies should be on these meds for 6 to 8 weeks and I would lean more toward 8 weeks over 6.

I hope that this helps for now and I will get back to you after I have a chance to review the videos if I think of any other suggestions! Lots of smooches and scritches to Janny and the girls! ❤
Thank you so much for your time explaining this, it's super helpful!
I'm going to need a lot of help figuring out doses. From my knowledge, I'll only be able to get baytril and doxycycline from the vet, is that right? And I should order azithromyacin from Wedgewood?

Marlene has been the same since I got her - constant sneezes but perfectly fine other than that. She also squeeks a lot, even when nothing is hurting here (i.e. when I pick her up or when other rats are gently grooming her). Is she being a drama queen or could this be a sign of something deeper?
I'll have to rat phone Janny again later because I am unsure of where her noises are coming from. Her noises kind of sound like a guinea pig now.
Daya's breathing is startling me but is only coming from her nose.
My last rat is Ruby, and she is completely fine but I'll continue to keep an eye on her.
 
Thank you so much for your time explaining this, it's super helpful!
I'm going to need a lot of help figuring out doses. From my knowledge, I'll only be able to get baytril and doxycycline from the vet, is that right? And I should order azithromyacin from Wedgewood?

Marlene has been the same since I got her - constant sneezes but perfectly fine other than that. She also squeeks a lot, even when nothing is hurting here (i.e. when I pick her up or when other rats are gently grooming her). Is she being a drama queen or could this be a sign of something deeper?
I'll have to rat phone Janny again later because I am unsure of where her noises are coming from. Her noises kind of sound like a guinea pig now.
Daya's breathing is startling me but is only coming from her nose.
My last rat is Ruby, and she is completely fine but I'll continue to keep an eye on her.
I sent you a conversation to clarify how ordering at Wedgewood works. :)

Marlene sounds like she is a very sensitive and vocal little lady. It sounds to me like she's just being dramatic. My Pi does the same thing. :) He squeaks if Beans bothers him during a nap, he squeaks when Beans steps over him and he squeaks when he's being groomed too roughly lol. Drama rats-- every mischief has at least one.

I'm hoping that azithromyacin and baytril will get Janny back to quieter and easier breathing. As for Marlene and Daya, I would dose w/ the doxycycline and baytril combo and keep an eye on Ruby for now. Others may disagree and suggest medicating Ruby too, but in situations like this I would clear all treatments with your veterinarian and have them sign off on it. You never want to unnecessarily medicate, over medicate or under medicate, so when in doubt have a vet check it out. :)
 
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