PT ? - treatment

Okay guys haven't been on here in awhile, but my boy Trooper, born in March of 2017, had been on doxy/baytril for awhile for URI symptoms. I took him off for about three days when he presented with a nasty head tilt to the right and he was stumbing all over his cage. Started the doxy again and got him to the vet three days later at which point he was showing no improvement, was now circling, no redness or swelling to either ear was visible. Upon xray both ears canals looked clear and no visible sign of brain tumor, but signs he is displaying certainly appear neuro. I'm not one to treat for PT, but that is what we are suspecting. Started high dose doxy and prenisone. After thinking about it for an hour or two and having a friend close by with cabergoline she wasn't using and the fact Trooper loves taking his meds - I thought lets try it. The night of the vet appt he did stop using his paws.
This was his treatment the first few days
Tuesday (12/18) .2 prednisone .1 doxy

Wednesday (12/19) .2 prednisone .14 doxy 1/2 tablet cabergoline.

Thursday (12/20) .07 prednisone .1 - .14 doxy 1/2 tablet cabergoline (we realized his dose was too)

His schedule after the above is .1 doxy twice a day, .1 pred twice a day, and 1 tablet cabergoline every three days.

On 12/20 his head tilt, circling, and stumbling was gone
On 12/21 he started using his paws again
On 12/22 he was back to normal

Here is my question. Is cagergoline that good of a med? Did we get lucky and catch it early? Should I stop the cabergoline and see if any symptoms return? Does anyone have any other ideas what might be going on with him.?

He shares a cage with his dad and six brothers. I did put a blue wood chew in there, that he went right to chewing on, after last cage clean. I also mark three of his PEW brothers with sharpies so I can tell them apart..

Thanks and sorry for the long post..

First, it may be an inner ear infection - clavamox and pred might be a good combo - inner ear infections can take at least 4 weeks or longer to treat and different antibiotics may need to be tried http://ratguide.com/health/auricle_ear/otitis_media_otitis_interna_labyrinthitis.php

or it could be pt as you suspect - treatment is an antibiotic plus the maximum dose of prednisone twice a day
and the most common type of pt will also respond to cabergoline http://ratguide.com/health/neoplasia/pituitary_tumor.php

Prednisone and an antibiotic (baytril would be best) are both given twice a day and the amount is based on the weight of the rat. Rats can not just stop taking prednisone and a rat with pt will take the maximum dose for the rest of their life. http://ratguide.com/meds/endocrine_hormones/prednisone_prednisolone.php

Yes cabergoline is a good med for the most common type of pt It is Not given every day. It is given every 72 hours - and amount given is based on the weight of the rat (0.6 mg/kg [0.27 mg/lb], PO, q 72 hr) http://ratguide.com/meds/central_nervous_system_drugs/cabergoline.php

My rats who have gotten PT have been 2 years or older so in my experience he is a bit young, but it is certainly possible

You really need to find out the weight of your rat, and you really need to be working with your vet
Overdosing or underdosing your rat (ie giving the wrong amount or not giving the med when it needs to be given) is very dangerous …… and giving the wrong medication is very dangerous

I know his weight he is 845g. I am working with my vet. She is the one raising and lower his prednisone doses.

She is giving him high dose doxy because she went to a conference and did research on doxy. Apparently results are showing compounded doxy loses its potency after 72 hours.

Unfortunately the practice we go to has become a show. The turn over rate is unreal, the prices go up while the quality of care is going down. There have been too many stories coming out of there lately of cost cutting that has endangered animals. Our current vet as five days left there before she heads to the west coast and the only other excellent vet quit last month and headed to Florida. We're kind of screwed now in the vet department.

Anyway, I kind of agree with a very dep inner ear infection, but the loss of grasping in his paws is classic PT.

I just cannot believe he recovered completely from either in 3-4 days.

It may have been the pred
You should calculate the doses as he may be getting too much cab
and too little of the other meds
personally, I would be giving baytril not doxy

Great that he is acting normal now

Lilspaz68 may be able to give some good info
I have had excellent results using cabergoline with rats who had slow growing pt of the type it helps with
Some people give bromo instead of cab but cab is more effective, only every 3 days and is better tolerated by rats

Hi!!! So nice to see you again, sorry it's for such a sad reason.
I'm pretty sure it's the pred that got him back to normal so fast but it's the cabergoline that will slow the growth tremendously. I've heard of rats living extremely long time thanks to the cabergoline.

I have had rats with pt have 6 months of good quality time on cab + pred + baytril
and rats with a different type of pt that was slow growing have a lot of good quality time on pred + baytril

Thanks guys, I missed two doses of pred and I think he has a very very slight tilt. Today was a cabergoline day, but I held off. However, now that I have read your responses I have a better understanding on what each med does. I agree, he seems young for a PT, but he did stop using his paws for about 2 days. He grabbed food with his mouth or moved it around with his arms. He had paw "cupping" too. I really want this to be an inner ear infection and not another family with herititary PT!!!

SQ said:

I have had rats with pt have 6 months of good quality time on cab + pred + baytril
and rats with a different type of pt that was slow growing have a lot of good quality time on pred + baytril

Click to expand...

I did stop the cabergoline and he started the head tilt and became unbalanced within 24 hours. I was hoping it wasn't PT, but sadly it seems to be so I restarted his cabergoline and I will give it for as long as he continues to do well. He hates it, even though I mix it with a bit of strawberry syrup ..... he'll take about 1/4 - 1/2 of it before I have to give it to him.... This is much better though then the last rat I tried to treat with the bromo and dexamethasone......

jorats said:

Hi!!! So nice to see you again, sorry it's for such a sad reason.
I'm pretty sure it's the pred that got him back to normal so fast but it's the cabergoline that will slow the growth tremendously. I've heard of rats living extremely long time thanks to the cabergoline.

Click to expand...

I did stop the cabergoline and he started the head tilt and became unbalanced within 24 hours. I was hoping it wasn't PT, but sadly it seems to be so I restarted his cabergoline and I will give it for as long as he continues to do well. He hates it, even though I mix it with a bit of strawberry syrup ..... he'll take about 1/4 - 1/2 of it before I have to give it to him.... This is much better though then the last rat I tried to treat with the bromo and dexamethasone......

sorry that he has pt
but you are fortunate that it is the type of pt that responds to cabergoline
and at least it is only given every 3 days

The doses for cabergoline, & pred are on the links provided and dependant upon his weight

Well I missed a cabergoline dose and a pred dose and the poor guy was upside down in his hammock looking at me like "Mom, you f'd up again!" It was quite cute, but I can do better and I have.

His correct dose should be .38 of cabergoline which is about 3/4 of that tiny pill. So we have started him on 1/2 a tablet, .1 of pred, and .05 of doxy.

Time came for his second dose at 1/2 tablet and he was tilted and not using his paws again. Pushing food around with his mouth. No doses of any meds were missed in that three day period. Five hours later he had use of his paws, but still had more of a tilt than I'd like. Today his head was on straight again! So, I need something to get him to that third day - I will be increasing the cabergoline to 3/4 tablet on his next dose.

So, its been awhile since I updated this and alot has happened. We lowered his doxy to .05 and the tilt returned so we went back to .1 We left him at a sitter while we were on vacation 1/15-1/24 and his status didn't change. His head tilt remained so while he was there I had her drop the doxy back down to .05 and increase the cabergoline to 3/4 of a tablet. On the day I got him home he was not "right" he was laying more on his right side than usual - this is the side he tilts toward. He continued to deteriorate and became immobile laying on his right side with no paw usage. I increased his cabergoline to 1 full tablet and gave it a day earlier than scheduled along with increasing his pred dose. He continued to deteriorate he no longer was eating, he barely responded, and appeared to have no blink response as if he was blind. Then he started to have a seizure and the hubby wanted to have him pts. I refused because I wanted him to pass at home and we just lost our vets since the owner of the practice is, well I won't go into it, but I will not have him put my rats down because he refuses to use the iso before the final shot or let me be with them. All this took place in about four days and just before the seizure I added hemp oil. About an hour after the seizure he was holding his head up - he hadn't done that in days. About 24 hours later he was walking, eating ensure w/baby cereal on his own, and most of his head tilt was gone. He still doesn't have complete usage of his paws and he has lost weight. He's not the same rat he was before he crashed, but he's hanging in there. Not sure what kicked in - if the increase in cabergoline worked, increase in the pred, hemp oil (only give it every few days), or perhaps he had a stroke and is recovering from that, or perhaps the stress of going from house to house was to much for him. We may never know, but that is where we are right now. His buddy Splotchy never left his side - he is the most caring "buddy" rat I've ever had. If he thinks I have bothered him enough he lays over him so I can no longer mess with him. If he needs propping up he pushes him up and holds him up. If I put them both on the floor he still doesn't leave his side. He also will NOT eat his baby food....

He died today

I am so very sorry
Thank you for all you shared regarding Trooper and his battle
I hope that you and Splotchy take good care of one another in your grief
{{hugs}}