Elderly rat has lost 20% of her body weight in the past month

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Charlize

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2017
Messages
12
Location
New Brunswick
My old lady rat (2.75 years) has lost 20% of her body weight since the beginning of July. Vet was concerned about her weight loss, so I started to monitor whether she's actually eating her lab blocks. It seems like she has a nibble here and there, and if it's softened with water, she is not interested in it. She still eats her meds out of avocado oil/peanut butter or sweet potato.

He said that it's possible that there's a "body wasting" happening (can't remember the official word he used). He was also concerned about PT given that she drops food out of her hands sometimes. She's got HLD, so I assumed that some of her food dropping was because she can't properly sit back on her legs like she used to. She usually has to have one paw on the floor to kind of hold her balance. She also can't fish for peas anymore as she doesn't seem to have the same ability to reach her arm out and grab them.

Based on some of my forum finds, it seems like people try to supplement their rats with ensure mixed with something or nutrical. I've thought about trying to find Harlan Tekland instead of Oxbow, perhaps that would peak her interest. Any other suggestions on how to get nutrients and calories into her?

I think I'm going to call next week to see whether she's got some PT symptoms going on.
 
Here she is
 

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She looks like a very sweet girl :)
Check her front teeth from the front and from both sides of her mouth to make sure they are not over grown and interfering with her ability to eat

I feed Harlan Teklad 2014 and order it (as well as other items) from here https://www.chinchilla.ca/store.php
If they like it, I would suggest ordering the largest size bag as you can repackage into small zip lock freezer bags. While rat blocks in an open bag will go stale within 3 months, they will be good for 9 months if frozen. Shipping costs can be expensive so I order two 33 IB bags at the same time …. but I am involved in rescue so I go through a bag approx. every 3 weeks.

My rats do like the Harlan Teklad 2014 soaked in cold water to make mush.
avocado - but not from near the pit or from near the skin, is supposed to be a healthy fat so good to feed her

For your senior girl I would suggest her regular blocks supplemented with:
* block mush
* organic soy infant formula thickened with baby cereal (ensure is not very healthy and not great for people either) - cans of the powdered formula was sold at Super store, now what seems to be similar can be ordered from Walmart

and vegs and treats such as :
cooked and mashed sweet potato
cooked and mashed organic carrots (my rats say organic carrots taste better)
baby kale
mixed greens
cooked organic whole grains like oatmeal, quinoa, 12 grain cereal etc
a piece of ripe banana
homemade veg (potato carrot celery turnip etc) and bean and chick pea and lentil and barley soup - she might enjoy the cooked vegs and drink the liquid
baby food
never tried cooked and mashed cauliflower but have heard that some rats like it

I hope this helps
 
Awesome! Thanks!

Ensure did seem like it had a lot of sugar in it so the less sugary alternatives are appreciated.

She loves decadent food like sweet potato and banana, she just hates her blocks, I guess.

Thanks again!
 
Another healthy fat alternative that could help get her weight up is hard-boiled eggs. They are great for pregnant and nursing rats so maybe good for old girls too? I would suggest making mush from the blocks with warm milk and see if she likes that better than cold water. You would only be able to give her a little at a time because, well, milk. But see if she will take it that way or try crushing up her blocks in stuff she enjoys like 2 parts crushed blocks 1 part cooked sweet potato.
 
milk and other forms of dairy are unhealthy for rats
also rats need very low protien (and it is best if it comes from plant sources) and eggs have too much protien, cholesterol etc
 
So, apparently my rats LOVE infant formula mixed with baby cereal. Anova seems to be willing to eat decadent food, but not her lab blocks. Visit to the vet suggested a possible PT or perhaps just some kind of neurologic condition. Poor girl.
 
How are her teeth?

Is she eating the organic soy infant formula thickened with baby cereal?
If so, you can mix a little lab block mush into it to see if she will eat it, if she will not then omit the block mush and feed the organic soy infant formula thickened with baby cereal at several times a day because it will provide her with the nutrition she needs
and of course feed soft easy to eat vegs daily like cooked and mashed sweet potato, cooked and mashed squash, peas, baby kale, mixed greens, and teats like cooked whole grain oatmeal with berries such as blueberries etc

Why does the vet think she may have pt or a neurological issue?
If she does, there are meds that can help
 
Her teeth are good, not too long.

She is eating the formula + cereal. She's also eating banana, avocado, sweet potato, oatmeal, apple etc. I've got HT blocks on the way, so we'll see if she finds those more appealing.

Anova and Chi both started having HLD symptoms around the same point in time, but Chi's were a bit worse. They were put on metacam, glucosamine chondroitin, and gabapentin (see if it helped). They seemed to slightly improve in my opinion. Anova became much more active and would actually explore things again, where she hadn't been doing that for a while. She kind of plateaued for a while, but now is starting to deteriorate. I mentioned to the vet that she's dropping food out of her mouth/hands and he was concerned. I had assumed that this was happening because she can't properly sit back on her legs to hold her upper body up. She would have to have one hand on the floor and would use the other hand to eat something.

I brought her in again and it seems worse than it was previously. When she holds stuff in her paws it has to be on the ground, and her hands are quite knuckled doing so. She also doesn't seem to have the same coordination between her hands/mouth. I've even noticed that her bruxing doesn't seem to be as audible as it used to be.

Food wise, it's easiest to feed her a soft chunk of something (e.g., slice of sweet potato, slice of apple) as opposed to mashed versions of it. There's just something not quite right with her mouth and arms and how they are coordinating. She can still bring her hands to her face to clean herself though.

Vet recommended trying cabergoline + prednisone to see if it helps. Any experience with either of those?
 
Yes, I have had a lot of experience. :(
Is she spayed?

A couple of indicators of possible pt are :
1. handing her something small like a cheerio or a kumut puff to see if she can hold it in both hands and eat it
2. the wheelbarrow test - see this link for info on it as well as, pt treatment, care etc
http://ratguide.com/health/neoplasia/pituitary_tumor.php

If she has the most common type of pt, then cabergoline should help and how much it helps will depend on how fast it is growing etc. If she has a different type of pt then it will not help.
(Bromocriptine is similar but not as effective, is given daily, cheaper but imo it seems to hurt as rats are less able to tolerate it,) http://ratguide.com/meds/central_nervous_system_drugs/cabergoline.php

Prednisone + baytril (it must be given with an antibiotic) is the treatment for neurological issues including pt.
Prednisone will reduce inflammation of tissue and thus reduce symptoms - how effective it is depends on how fast the tumour is growing. http://ratguide.com/meds/endocrine_hormones/prednisone_prednisolone.php
Many people give dexamethasone instead (lilspaz68 has a lot of experience with dex - it is more effective) but my vet will not prescribe it.

I have had rats that meds did not help and they died within a very short time after diagnosis. I have had other rats that meds gave a good quality time of a few months up to 6 months.

I hope the meds help

It sounds like you have a pretty good vet for rats. You might consider writing something in the "Rat Veterinarian Listings" section
 
Yup, Anova and Chi were both spayed. Anova LOVES kamut puffs but they're quite difficult for her to eat because they're so small to hold. If I held her upright so she could move both of her hands, she was able to hold it before. I'll have to try again and see, but it seems like she struggles to actually bite through it and coordinate holding it.

I'll take a look at this wheelbarrow test.

Anovas been on Baytril her entire life, so she'll definitely be on it. Interesting re:dexamethasone.

I also hope the meds help too. Anova is still able to walk around decently well despite her HLD. She can't climb ramps in the cage anymore, but she loves to roam around in their play space.

Thanks!!
 
Sweet girl :)
If the girls were spayed young, they may not have the most common type of pt, however it is still worth trying the cab to see if it helps
does she head butt?

any concerns or things to watch out for should be in the links I provided on the meds
Pred. lowers the immune system which is why it must be given with an antibiotic. Also rats can not just be taken off it if on it for very long as it must be gradually reduced - not a worry because they will be on the highest dose for life because of neuro prob. You have to wait days between giving pred and dex if switching between them, and there are some meds, such as pain meds that can not be given with meds.

I am so thankful for ratguide.com as it is a vet approved medical site for rat owners and thus extremely helpful
 
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Anova doesn't headbutt at all. She does seem like she's chewing more. There's a bit more difficulty in the rear legs. It's like they flip side to side.

I'll take another look at the guide. Thanks!
 
Jorats, thanks for that! Brought her to the vet anyways and he wasn't that concerned with it. She's already on Clava/Baytril for what I thought was going to be a respiratory infection so hopefully it resolves.
 
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