Rat Lover's Opinion

So.. I joined the forum because I need the opinion of people who actually love their rats and don't see them as simply disposable. My male albino sweetheart, LoLo, is the absolute love of my life, and he's 4 years old. Unfortunately, about 5 months ago I noticed a lump growing under his right arm. It grew VERY quickly, literally getting bigger over night. I took him to one of the 'exotic vets' in my area who informed me that the best thing to do in his case would be to leave the tumor alone until he could no longer enjoy life and had to be euthanized. I accepted that, thinking the vet knows best, and began feeding LoLo foods that would help reduce the rate of the tumor's growth instead. It didn't help. But lately he's been doing well, slowing down little despite the size of the tumor and eating/happily bruxing as usual.. so I decided that that vet could be wrong and that the tumor didn't need to kill him after all. I took him in elsewhere to get it removed. However, vet is now telling me that regardless of how healthy my baby seems he is now too old and the growth is too large to perform surgery. He told me that if I put LoLo under he won't wake back up. Now I don't know what to do.. And I feel like I just sentenced my boy to death. I took him to a third vet for a THIRD opinion and they basically screamed euthanasia, which contradicts what the others said about his current state.. I refuse to give up like that. They're not looking at him, they're only looking at the problem they can't seem to fix. Any rat lover would be able to tell that he is a happy boy, just annoyed by the mass under his arm. However, I know him and I know how he acts, and he will hide his pain no matter what it is. So now I'm just so lost. I don't know what to do for him anymore. Everyone I've talked to so far has seen the tumor and said he needs to hurry up and die already. That isn't a solution to me. I don't want to believe that killing him is the only option, especially when he doesn't need to go yet. What do you think? If he IS in pain, and just not showing it, is if safe to give him something at home? I can't get pain meds from the vet, and because of the way they euthanize their rats i'd rather have LoLo on medication until he dies naturally. Euthanasia at the vet is not an option. I just can't stand the thought of him being in pain but.. I don't know if I should give him anything because he isn't giving me any pain signals! Also, I noticed today that he is slightly dragging his back feet when he walks. He still uses and controls them, but they seem a little off.. just another problem with my love's body. He's slowly dying and trying to fight it, but I can't do anything to help him, and no one else cares enough to help me figure it out. He's dispensable to them, but he means everything to me. What would you do if he was one of yours?

First off... 4 years old??? That is amazing for a rat!!! I need your secret!! :thumbup:

Can you post a picture of the tumor? It's size, shape, look and location would definitely help guide opinions tremendously!

But I do agree with you that you know your pet best, and I too would have come running here for opinions. From what I read, your old boy is still active and lively, doesn't have breathing issues, and is only at the beginning stages of HED (Hind End Degeneration), which is very common with old rats. Anesthesia is rough on any rat, so definitely a bigger risk on such an old rat, and all surgeries are risky, no matter the type (I for one very recently lost a 5-month girl for no apparent reason during a ovariectomy).

Now these basis being settled, it comes down to the tumor itself and the risks you are willing to take. Some tumors can be very vascularized, thus very difficult to remove, some can be attached to an organ, some can be cancerous, there is a variety of tumor-related reasons why a vet would refuse to perform a removal. Once you post a picture, I'm sure our health-savvy people will be able to help you decide whether or not you want to force the removal.

Now - there are no humane ways to euthanize a rat other than anesthesia + injection (of course performed by a knowledgeable vet!). How does your vet euthanize rats? Why is this not an option for you?

I concur with what Unepuce said. I would just add that since he seems happy and is showing no signs of pain, there is no reason why you can't just let him continue to live his life. You don't have to consider PTS until he no longer has quality of life.

You could use children's Motrin for pain relief if your vet is unwilling to supply metacam. 15mg/Kg.

I thought it was amazing too. I used to be so proud that he made it this long, until someone told me they had a rat live till 6, and that became my expectation. No secret, he's seriously just a big guy that won't give up. Here's a picture of the ugly thing leeching off of my boy:
He would barely keep still for one picture, but you can clearly see it is getting bigger than he is. The thing is, every vet I've seen has said it's a benign tumor that is encapsulated and probably easy to remove. Even I can tell that. They just say he won't make it past anesthesia and I'll be paying for no reason, because he'll die anyway and it'll cut the last time I have with him short. That scares me more then the tumor does. As for the "humane euthanasia", the vets here won't let you comfort your rat while it's being performed, and they do it via injection to the heart, little to no anesthesia (because according to him it doesn't hurt too bad and it will only take a few minutes, even if he fails the first time and has to do it twice) -_- . Or at least this is what they claim.. could be worse, I'll never know since they won't let me in with him and that makes me uncomfortable.


Thank you for the advice, I'll go get Motrin. I know he's not ready to leave yet, so I'll just try to make him as comfortable as possible if he ever does start showing me he's hurting.


P.S. -Any grooming tips would be greatly appreciated too. I do it for him now because he can't reach, and although still soft, his fur definitely doesn't feel the same. :\

I wouldn't trust a vet who wouldn't let me comfort my animal while they were being put to sleep. If you do decide to euthanize, I would do it elsewhere. However, do it professionally, whatever you do. With a vet that knows what they're doing, thoroughly explains the process, and allows you to be present for the process.

My friend was told the same thing about her old rat, that the surgery to remove the tumor would probably kill her. She has a tumor about that size, actually, in comparison to her size and she is living just fine. She's still mobile and pain-free. They can live just fine with tumors for a while. Obviously consider euthanizing him if he is in pain or immobile, but until then, I recommend just doing what you're doing and enjoy your time with him. A surgery at this age really wouldn't be a good idea and that just wouldn't be a comfortable way for him to die, if he did die in surgery.

As far as grooming, when one of my rats got old and started having trouble moving, I started dabbing her fur with a damp rag and drying her quickly. Avoid running water over him and avoid his ears. Water in the ears can cause awful infections.

Just to clear things up, at home euthanasia was never an option for me either, I know better then that.. and I would never risk any of those methods.

That is exactly how I feel about the vet right now. I just don't trust him.

Thank you for the advice, I will try that grooming method instead. He's had the tumor for nearly six months now. They all said he wouldn't last that long. As for ear infections, what are some sure signs he has one? Because lately he's been coming to me and begging to get his ears scratched. He'll lean his head onto my hand like a dog when I scratch his ears, like it feels good.. and it isn't something I've noticed him doing before.

Paka&LoLo said:

Just to clear things up, at home euthanasia was never an option for me either, I know better then that.. and I would never risk any of those methods.

That is exactly how I feel about the vet right now. I just don't trust him.

Thank you for the advice, I will try that grooming method instead. He's had the tumor for nearly six months now. They all said he wouldn't last that long. As for ear infections, what are some sure signs he has one? Because lately he's been coming to me and begging to get his ears scratched. He'll lean his head onto my hand like a dog when I scratch his ears, like it feels good.. and it isn't something I've noticed him doing before.

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An ear infection would be more noticeable. They start to lose balance and tip their heads and become lethargic and disoriented. There might also be an odor from inside the infected ear,

If he tries to get you to scratch his ears, it might be just that - itchy ears. My oldies that cannot groom their ears by themselves anymore all react the same to ear scratching - those filthy ears do get itchy! You can scratch the inside of his ear using your small finger, it does mimic what they do. If he looks fine, doesn't have breathing issues, he might not have an ear infection at all. But it's always a good idea to be on the look out.

And wowsa!!! That tumor is huge! :shock: Sorry, I almost fell down my chair when I saw it...

Thank god.. an infection would've been just the thing to top off his tumor and HED. -_-

I know it's huge. :\ I've tried to stop it's growth, but that thing is persistent. Know of any miracle foods that can help? I've probably already tried them all, but there's no harm in asking, maybe you guys know something I don't.

Your poor baby! We recently just went through the same thing with our :heart: rat Curley! We took him to four different vets trying desperately to get him the medication he would need for PT after his main vet refused to listen to me and what I saw out of me baby on a regular basis. Unfortunately by the time he did get the one shot he needed (not from our regular vet) and our regular vet decided she didn't know enough to help and referred us to a true exotics specialist (we didn't know she didn't know rats, as she said she did) our sweet baby boy was too advanced and had gone blind from brain swelling. We couldn't let him suffer any longer and choice to PTS - along with another one of our boys FINN suffering from kidney disease and a mouth abscess. Anyway, they let us go with them into the anesthesia area and I held my babies and talked to them the entire time - we never left their sides.

I hope you can find a vet that will listen to you because I know how hard that is. We would do anything for our babies and we'll never get over losing our boys.

For your other question - I would have to bathe them one or two times a day. I put them in the sink, but never got water above their necks - I usually held their heads higher than the faucet. Curley needed plugs cleaned out at least twice a day too.

Best wishes and I hope your boy has a lot of time left with you.

Surprised no one's mentioned prednisone (or prednisolone)... I had a rat (Scout) who had an inoperable liver tumor. The vet started him on prednisone and the tumor actually shrank. Eventually I had to have him PTS because he was losing too much weight and just didn't have the will to go on any more, but the prednisone gave me 4 months with him to say goodbye.

Ask your sketchy vet if they will at least get you some pred for your boy to try.

I cant offer much help, but maybe if you change the tittle to "4 year old rat with tumor" or "Tumor on older rat" etc, it would get the attention of the more experienced members like Jorats, SQ, victoria, lilspaz etc. Good luck!

I've had a tumour removed on a 37 month old rat in the past. He recovered very well from surgery. A good qualified vet can do it and shouldn't use age as a reason not to do it.
But without a vet who is confident in his skills and protocols, it might not be a good idea to put the rat through surgery.
All the rats I've had with tumours, only a small number of them were actually in pain from the tumour. I don't think that they are unless it's cancer and pressing inward.
I think the hardest part is watching your rat live with that huge appendage, meanwhile, the rat couldn't care less.

Thank you for your replies. I gave him some infant ibuprofen and he perked up really quick. He's running around (as best he can) right now and was just playing / begging me for my food.. so he gotz a piece of sausage.. which he devoured. I'm thinking that because he wasn't quite as playful and alert earlier (he definitely wasn't bouncing around like right now) he was in some sort of discomfort, and the medicine helped. I will try the pred, but I really can't rely on my vet for much.. obviously. Dspch911, I'm sorry for your loss. We lost LoLo's brother suddenly two years ago, heartbreaking situation. It is so unfair that the best pets are with us for such a short time. :\ LoLo really isn't fond of baths, he never screams unless he's about to go in the water.. so I'm trying to limit those.

Any other tips or specifics at all?

And jorats, you're right, the hardest part is watching him live with that disgusting thing attached to him.. But he acts like it isn't there most of the time. 0_0 I don't know how rats do it, they're amazing.

Then I would stick with wet washcloths or baby wipes. Glad to hear the baby advil (?) worked - keep looking, you are bound to find a vet that loves your babies!!!

What a sweet boys. Myself personally, I won't put an older rat through surgery. I like them to live out their old days the way life intended it to be. But in saying that, people have had much success in doing surgeries on older rats, as age shouldn't affect the process , just the experience of the vet.

As long as your boys is happy, that's all that matters. Just keep him comfortable

Can I ask how you know he is 4 years old? Did you get him as a baby? Or as an adult from someone who told you his age? HED usually kicks in around 30 months or so, which is why I ask this question, he may be younger than you think.

2) the Ibu would help because lugging that heavy thing about would cause some aches and discomfort, so I doubt it was actual pain.

3) call the vets again (ALL of them, not just the inhumane one)...tell them you WANT gas until he is completely unconscious and then they can do the IC stick. I am not allowed to be with my rats when they are being put to sleep because of the anesthesia rules/laws...but I also know my vet. He will need to be put to sleep one day, tumour rats rarely die at home well. If they refuse to gas down your rat, call the next one.

4) Can you take a video of your boy so we can see how he moves, how he's adapted and we can probably also give you an idea of how long he might have, whether to chance surgery or not.

The only reason I know he was four is because I had him for four years. When I first got him he was already around 3 months. So he actually made it past four. I'm eternally grateful for every single one of those years.

Unfortunately, my baby boy died today. I noticed he was acting differently this morning. He was eating and bruxing/boggling his eyes when I loved him up.. but it was just different. Later in the evening he settled down, and wouldn't really move again. He tried to get onto my hand so i picked him up and snuggled him until he squeaked his last breath. He stared up at me the whole time I pet and comfort him. It was peaceful and I'm thankful for that, though my eyes are still red from crying so much. :*
Now I need different advice. I can't bury him in my yard and I don't really want to have him cremated. I don't know what else to do. I'd like a good way to honor him and keep him around if that makes sense. I heard of people using large plant pots and planting flowers inside with the body.. Though I'm not quite sure that would be best. How did you bury the bodies of the ones you have lost? Anyone do the flower pot thing?

I'm so sorry for your loss. I buried mine at my parents property so unfortunately I cannot help with that situation. I hope you find a solution that gives you peace.

:heart: :sad3: RIP sweet baby, you had a long and wonderful life :sad3: :heart: Sorry for your loss - we cremate