Heart failure URGENT

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oasisandbambi

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 6, 2018
Messages
48
Location
Portugal
Hello, my Rubi recently started becoming extremely exhausted just from walking a bit. We took her to the vet last Friday and she took an X-ray, her heart is inlarged. Our vet prescribed Meloxidyl for inflamation, Laxis and Benazepril and she's been on this for 4 days. After a little research I believe this isn't really the best medication and will be asking for other meds soon. Correct me if I'm wrong please. After the vet trip (4 hours total by train ), the next day, her health deteriorated and we took her in to this other vet nearby for oxygen and a shot of Laxis. She perked up a bit but now, even tho I feel the medication could be making her feel a bit better, her condition seems to be worsening again, I would say because she barely drinks anything. I tried to springe feed her and give her water but she refuses to swallow. I found a thread here where someone mentioned Sub Q fluids and I was wondering how much for a kit? Do all vets have this in hand and can sell kits? If my vet doesn't have this/ won't sell it, is there any other way to keep her hydrated? Also, I already turned her cage into a one level low setup cage but what else can I do to make her comfortable? I would appreciate if I could get a quick reply to this, don't think she has much time.
 
re sub-Q fluids - you should be able to buy the equipment from your vet and your vet should be able to teach you how to do it https://www.ratshackforum.com/threads/subq-a-dehydrated-rat.5076/#post-76759

It is difficult because rats will need Lasix two or more times a day so they do not accumulate water but if they get dehydrated and not taking fluids by mouth then will need sub-Q fluids
Rats are given an ACE inhibitor (such as benazepril, or Enalapril), my vet has started giving pimobendane, they are given a beta blocker if needed, and they are given digoxin

sometimes a steroid can help re breathing as it helps with inflammation - if a steroid is given then an antibiotic must also be given - sounds like this is what your vet is doing

Please see this link for information. Click on the medications to find out doses and more info.
http://ratguide.com/health/cardiovascular/congestive_heart_failure.php

Rats with enlarged hearts will reach a point where they have little quality of life and will need to be humanely put to sleep to prevent suffering …….. some rats live a long time on heart meds, some a shorter time, and others have hearts that are too damaged and they may not even respond to the meds ………. If not put to sleep when things get bad their lungs will fill with fluid and they will drown - it is a horrible painful terrifying death

I am so very sorry this is happening to your rattie.
At present I have 5 rats with enlarged hearts that are on meds, and 2 (Monty & Octavia) are not doing very well

Let me know if you do not know how to put a rat to sleep humanely - most vets do not know how so it is essential that rat owners make sure it is done properly - and you need to have this done before she is in an emergency, struggling to breath because vets are not always available to help

{{hugs}}
 
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re sub-Q fluids - you should be able to buy the equipment from your vet and your vet should be able to teach you how to do it https://www.ratshackforum.com/threads/subq-a-dehydrated-rat.5076/#post-76759

It is difficult because rats will need Lasix two or more times a day so they do not accumulate water but if they get dehydrated and not taking fluids by mouth then will need sub-Q fluids
Rats are given an ACE inhibitor (such as benazepril, or Enalapril), my vet has started giving pimobendane, they are given a beta blocker if needed, and they are given digoxin

sometimes a steroid can help re breathing as it helps with inflammation - if a steroid is given then an antibiotic must also be given - sounds like this is what your vet is doing

Please see this link for information. Click on the medications to find out doses and more info.
http://ratguide.com/health/cardiovascular/congestive_heart_failure.php

Rats with enlarged hearts will reach a point where they have little quality of life and will need to be humanely put to sleep to prevent suffering …….. some rats live a long time on heart meds, some a shorter time, and others have hearts that are too damaged and they may not even respond to the meds ………. If not put to sleep when things get bad their lungs will fill with fluid and they will drown - it is a horrible painful terrifying death

I am so very sorry this is happening to your rattie.
At present I have 5 rats with enlarged hearts that are on meds, and 2 (Monty & Octavia) are not doing very well

{{hugs}}
Thank you. I understand many vets don't euthanize rats correctly. What should I ask to make sure this is done properly?
 
Ask how it is done, if you can be present, if you can hold her etc.
Make sure you discuss with the vet how you need it to be done, and make sure the vet will do it properly before she gets that bad.

This is the right way to have it done : The rat is given the gas/oxygen mix used for surgery, she will not like the smell of the gas but the oxygen may help her breath easier, once unconscious the vet needs to test toe and eye reflexes, once she is deeply unconscious to at least a surgical level then the vet will inject her, you will keep her unconscious breathing in the gas/oxygen mix until she is dead.
Edit: vets may inject an unconscious rat into the abdomen, the liver, and some will inject into the heart

Never allow a vet to inject a conscious rat into the heart - this is so cruel that it is illegal in some places.
 
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Ask how it is done, if you can be present, if you can hold her etc.
Make sure you discuss with the vet how you need it to be done, and make sure the vet will do it properly before she gets that bad.

This is the right way to have it done : The rat is given the gas/oxygen mix used for surgery, she will not like the smell of the gas but the oxygen may help her breath easier, once unconscious the vet needs to test toe and eye reflexes, once she is unconscious to at least a surgical level then the vet will inject her, you will keep her unconscious breathing in the gas/oxygen mix until she is dead.

Never allow a vet to inject a conscious rat into the heart - this is so cruel that it is illegal in some places.
Thank you, while I was reading your reply I heard some violent noises form inside the cage, I went to check on her and she is moving quickly from time to time I guess form panick from not being able to breath well. I am trying to send you a video on how she's breathing. It's 2 am and I am wondering if she can wait till morning so I can take her to the vet or do you think she needs to see a vet now? *Uploading to YouTube*
 
@SQ theres only one vet that works emergency hours but they are not specialized in rats. Im wondering if it would be worth a shot. I feel like she is suffering a lot. I honestly didn't think she was going to get this bad so so quickly. Update: nevermind I called them and it's inactive.
 
She's really struggling to breath. It's 7 hours until the vet opens. Is there anything I can do to make her feel more comfortable?
 
a tiny piece of dark chocolate can help to keep an airway open
If fluid is filling her lungs then Lasix will help if you have any …… it can be injected just under her skin (sub-Q) if she can not take it by mouth

I am sorry that the emergency vet is not an option, because a vet does not need to know much about rats to humanely put them to sleep

Some people suggest a steamy bathroom but if she has lungs filling with fluid that will just make her much worse by adding more fluid to her lungs - I would not take her into the bathroom - just mentioning it in case someone else suggests it
 
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a tiny piece of dark chocolate can help to keep an airway open
If fluid is filling her lungs then Lasix will help if you have any …… it can be injected just under her skin (sub-Q) if she can not take it by mouth

I am sorry that the emergency vet is not an option, because a vet does not need to know much about rats to humanely put them to sleep

Some people suggest a steamy bathroom but if she has lungs filling with fluid that will just make her much worse buy adding more fluid to her lungs - I would not take her into the bathroom - just mentioning it in case someone else suggests it
I'll be getting a piece of chocolate but doubt she will be able to eat it. I have furosemide but it's smashed and diluted tablets I believe. Can this still be injected? I never done this before. Should I try to learn how it's done and give it a shot or is it too risky?
I would love to be able to take her to a vet. She seems to be in huge discomfort. She doesn't want to be held or tucked in or else she'll panic, I think because she can't breath well so I'm not sure how to comfort her.
 
I am so sorry this is happening …. a steroid or a bronchodilator might help depending on why she is having problems breathing

Otherwise the only thing I can think of is to be with her and love her, and yes rats panic when having difficulty breathing and will run in a panic, or try to get higher in an attempt to be able to breath easier …… in the video she is hanging her head down to try to breath better
 
I'll be getting a piece of chocolate but doubt she will be able to eat it. I have furosemide but it's smashed and diluted tablets I believe. Can this still be injected? I never done this before. Should I try to learn how it's done and give it a shot or is it too risky?
I would love to be able to take her to a vet. She seems to be in huge discomfort. She doesn't want to be held or tucked in or else she'll panic, I think because she can't breath well so I'm not sure how to comfort her.

I don't know, probably not unless maybe it completely dissolves in water …… is there anyone you can call to ask?
I buy liquid Lasix from my vet or a pharmacy by prescription from my vet and it can be injected if necessary

talk to her, pet her if she will let you
Hopefully it is not as bad as it seems …… I am so very sorry that this is happening to her
 
I am so sorry this is happening …. a steroid or a bronchodilator might help depending on why she is having problems breathing

Otherwise the only thing I can think of is to be with her and love her, and yes rats panic when having difficulty breathing and will run in a panic, or try to get higher in an attempt to be able to breath easier …… in the video she is hanging her head down to try to breath better

I don't know, probably not unless maybe it completely dissolves in water …… is there anyone you can call to ask?
I buy liquid Lasix from my vet or a pharmacy by prescription from my vet and it can be injected if necessary
Thank you for your support. The vet who dissolved it isn't working atm so I can't reach her. I might try to sprynge the Laxis but this afternoon I tried this and she just wouldn't swollen it I was afraid she'd choke if I kept on trying. I'll give it another try and update you in a bit.
 
I sent lilspaz68 a message but she has probably gone to bed for the night

No you do not want her to choke or for it to go into her lungs

If it s completely dissolved (you said the vet dissolved it for you?) then it might be ok to inject the dose of Lasix under her skin (sub-Q, see lilspaz68's description in the link I previously posted)

I need to go finish medicating my rats. Will check back, but can not think of anything else …… Sorry, I wish I could be of more help

{{hugs}} to both of you
 
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I sent lilspaz68 a message but she has probably gone to bed for the night

No you do not want her to choke or for it to go into her lungs

If it s completely dissolved (you said the vet dissolved it for you?) then it might be ok to inject the dose of Lasix under her skin (sub-Q, see lilspaz68's description in the link I previously posted)

I need to go finish medicating my rats. Will check back, but can not think of anything else …… Sorry, I wish I could be of more help

{{hugs}} to both of you
I was able to give her the laxis via springe and then a teeny bit of chocolate.

She really wanted to leave the cage and started getting her head through the bars to get out. Is it best to let her roam my room as she pleases or to leave her in the cage so she doesn't move much and doesn't stress her heart?

And don't be sorry, you have helped me ever since I got my first rats. You helped this same girl before and helped me save her from most likely death when I was an inexperienced rat owner and she came to me very ill about a year ago. And you, along with lilzpaz & jorats ( there was probably more people answering my threads but I remember you three almost always replying and helping me) thought me a lot about amazing rat care that I now share with other rat parents. So thank you!
 
you are welcome

My rats do not freely roam the room - just their rat safe play area …. I assume that she normally roams your room?

Personally I would likely put her cage next to my bed and let my rat roam the bed where I would be and go back and forth to their cage …… I guess I am concerned about her panicking and getting hurt, disappearing, etc

You will likely need to give more Lasix in a few hours

You are the best judge of what she needs and what is best for her
I hope that she is soon breathing easier and felling better
 
you are welcome

My rats do not freely roam the room - just their rat safe play area …. I assume that she normally roams your room?

Personally I would likely put her cage next to my bed and let my rat roam the bed where I would be and go back and forth to their cage …… I guess I am concerned about her panicking and getting hurt, disappearing, etc

You will likely need to give more Lasix in a few hours

You are the best judge of what she needs and what is best for her
I hope that she is soon breathing easier and felling better
She passed just a few minutes ago. It was 9:28, the vet opened at 9 and I was just over getting ready to take her. Idk if it would make a difference it I had taken her righ away. Anyway, it was kind of cruel to give me hope that I was going to get her to the vet and passing just minutes before, thanks Rubi. I believe she suffered horribly, from what she looked like.
 
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I'm very sorry. She probably had a stroke or seizure before she passed but likely wasn't aware at that point.
Thank u. I feel horrible that I couldn't help her. I am really concerned to what I'll do if this happens with my other rats, not having emergency care in my city.
 
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