When is it safe for a rat dam and her litter to go back with her original cage mate?

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fallblossom

fallblossom

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2013
Messages
175
Location
North America
My rat dam's pups are 16 days old and she has been housed separately from her original cagemate. I do not want to put any pups at risk and need to know when it is safe to do introductions and when they can ALL live together.

If I have to wait until weaning or if it is best to wait until the the rat pups are big enough to defend themselves please advise.
 
ask Jorats .....I believe that she has done once weaned but I think that was because of the personalities of the sister rats involved and their relationships to one another and their maternal instincts.

Remember that young baby rats do not smell like rats and can be mistaken for prey by other rats.

I know that sister moms with litters have been safely put together once babies were several weeks old .... but the adults were all sisters with older but still nursing babies and thus very maternal and willing to accept babies that were made to all smell the same.

I believe people usually wait until the babies are at least 8 weeks old. 10 weeks is better (gradual intro steps here http://www.ratshackforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32368)

Edit : I have always waited until the babies were 10 weeks old ...... except when I was putting two closely bonded moms and their older-but-still-nursing-babies together in a very large cage

good luck
 
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Oh gosh I think that would depend on the other rat and their potential for aggression. I would want them half grown at least if you aren't sure how the other rat will behave.
 
SQ said:
ask Jorats .....I believe that she has done once weaned but I think that was because of the personalities of the sister rats involved and their relationships to one another and their maternal instincts.
Remember that young baby rats do not smell like rats are can be mistaken for prey by other rats.

I know that sister moms with litters have been safely put together once babies were several weeks old .... but the adults were all sisters with older but still nursing babies and thus very maternal and willing to accept babies that were made to all smell the same.

I believe people usually wait until the babies are at least 8 weeks old. 10 weeks is better (gradual intro steps here http://www.ratshackforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32368)

good luck
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I'll wait the ten weeks. Thank you very much. I did not not know baby rats didn't smell like rats! What I can do is allow my rat dam to spend time in her cagemate's cage a couple times per day since she seems to take long breaks from her pups after nursing them. If this is not a good idea, hopefully someone will chime in. Thanks again.
 
It is a good idea for you to give mom a break from her babies and let her spend time with her friends. The amount of time she can spend away from her babies will increase as they get older ...... and you will be able to use that time to clean or to handle the babies

I edited my previous post as I thought of more things :)
 
SQ said:
It is a good idea for you to give mom a break from her babies and let her spend time with her friends. The amount of time she can spend away from her babies will increase as they get older ...... and you will be able to use that time to clean or to handle the babies

I edited my previous post as I thought of more things :)
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I am glad you responded so quickly and am actually lucky. Folks don't respond here like they used to. So...phew!

One more thing. Should I be concerned that one of my rat pups has been eating a pumpkin seed? Is it not too early to start eating solids? Will he get sick from eating other foods that are not mom's milk? They are also fighting! They are only 16 days old. I hope won't translate into them being rat aggressive when they're full grown.
 
They are likely just wrestling and playing and popcorning ..... baby rats are very active once their little eyes pop open

To my knowledge, signs of aggression don't appear until they are teens ...... long after puberty (they are babies until 12 weeks old)

Babies will start to try foods and nibble on them when they are ready so that should be fine ... in addition to blocks, you might want to add a small saucer of blocks made into mush by soaking in cold water, and they will also try the vegs you put in for mom and healthy treats like small pieces of fruit .... they are learning from mom about what is safe to eat. Some also offer organic soy infant formula thickened with baby cereal, or baby food.

Baby rats can not get water out of water bottles because their tongues are not strong enough to move the ball bearing so a good, shallow water dish that can not be upset will be an important addition to the cage (I am cautious so I use a very shallow dish when they are small because I am afraid they might drown if the sides are high) .... As you likely know, it is good to have at least 2 or3 sources of water /cage, at least 1 of which needs to be a dish that can not be upset - because water dishes can be filled with bedding and water bottles can become clogged so rats die especially when it is very hot because they only had one source of water

Btw, baby boy are separated from mom and sisters at 5 weeks so no more pregnancies, as rats become sexually mature between 5 and 6 weeks - some very experienced rat owners do not separate until close to 6 weeks. Baby girls stay with mom until at least 6 weeks and never need to be separated.

Unfortunately many of the older members have taken a break from rats, have few rats or have other things going on in their lives that are more of a priority then coming on rat owner sites. But several older experienced members including Jorats and Lilspaz68 try to come on here regularly.
I try to come on here at least once a day, as this is still an amazing site built by a lot of wonderful rat owners, with a wealth of information in the various sections.

Looking forward to lots of cute baby pics
 
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The pups are trying apple slices and will pick up a piece of organic sprouted spelt cereal----and run off with it!

There is controversy around soy products. Some say it has phytoestrogens and can cause problems later in life such as with reproduction (maybe this is a good thing!), causing tumors, etc. while others say it can prevent tumors. I avoid anything with soy and do not feed it to my rats. However, I do make a gruel for my mom rat out of an organic mixed grain cereal which she loves! I am certain her rat pups will give it a try one day soon. During her pregnancy I gave this mix to her with the addition of probiotics to that the rat pups would get some of the benefits when they were born (it colonizes their intestines in utero).

I will soak lab blocks in water per your advice. Regarding water, I don't use water bottles because I think it's unnatural for rats to get their water from them. My rats drink out of a bird bowl attached low to their cage. I will put a small lid of water on the floor of the cage and see what happens.
 
actually nonGMO soy is not harmful and more is being known about it all the time. The organic soy infant formula is supposed to be the closest thing to a rat mama's milk and highly nutritious. But there is no need to supplement with it as the babies will get all they need from their mama and by learning to eat the blocks, vegs and other things you feed their mama
 
My babies have been eating solid food since 2 weeks old. I noticed yesterday (3 weeks 1 day) they started trying to use water bottle - still too little to make it work, but trying. Earlier in the week they started playing/wrestling with each other. Just so darn cute. Sadly though, momma has another liter on the way.
 
SQ said:
actually nonGMO soy is not harmful and more is being known about it all the time. The organic soy infant formula is supposed to be the closest thing to a rat mama's milk and highly nutritious. But there is no need to supplement with it as the babies will get all they need from their mama and by learning to eat the blocks, vegs and other things you feed their mama
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Soy infant formula has 10x less protein than rat's milk has whereas kitten and puppy milk replacers have higher levels that are closer. If soy replacers have less protein and fat levels than that of rat milk, why is it recommended?

I won't worry that my pups are sampling foods now. initially I thought it was strange because I thought they ate solids at three weeks of age. Now I am giving them all variety. Nom nom.
 
I am allowing my rat dam to visit her cagemate. They don't seem to be getting along the way they used to and they squeak when together. Will an adult rat try to nurse a lactating rat dam? It seems my one girl was searching out her teats and my rat dam did not like it.

Will they ever get along the way they used to? Or is my rat dam too much into her kids now to even care about her? I hope intros go fine when her rat pups are older.
 
Well I don't know if she would be trying to suckle or not but I'm sure she is smelling the milk and is curious.
 
My momma had five more babies yesterday afternoon/evening... Thank goodness it was a small liter. I took her other babies out in the morning when I found that she had made another nest and she had started attacking them for no reason.
 
dspch911 said:
My momma had five more babies yesterday afternoon/evening... Thank goodness it was a small liter. I took her other babies out in the morning when I found that she had made another nest and she had started attacking them for no reason.
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Maybe start a thread on this because members won't see this as this was a post about putting a rat dam in with her cagemate and not about rat dams attacking their previous litters.

I have no clue if this is normal behaviour or not because I've never allowed a male rat to live with a pregnant doe because they get pregnant soon after birth. I hope your rat dam didn't injure her first litter too badly and cause bite wounds. Her hormones are probably taking over. In the wild I wonder if previous litters get attacked or if the mom allows them to help rear the new pups (by keeping them warm---not nursing them).

Anyhow, this really should be discussed in another thread so folks can find it easier should they end up in the same situation.
 
fallblossom said:
Maybe start a thread on this because members won't see this as this was a post about putting a rat dam in with her cagemate and not about rat dams attacking their previous litters.

I have no clue if this is normal behaviour or not because I've never allowed a male rat to live with a pregnant doe because they get pregnant soon after birth. I hope your rat dam didn't injure her first litter too badly and cause bite wounds. Her hormones are probably taking over. In the wild I wonder if previous litters get attacked or if the mom allows them to help rear the new pups (by keeping them warm---not nursing them).

Anyhow, this really should be discussed in another thread so folks can find it easier should they end up in the same situation.
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Honestly I don't think this response was meant for your thread. I know I commented on our first litter eating solid food already because you had a question about that, but I am not sure why this response would be here as it doesn't seem to have anything to do with what you are asking about - for that I apologize. I don't come to this site often anymore because I have too many problems with tapatalk and this is just one example. I respond to a post and it ends up on another - usually I catch it and delete it, but this one got past me. Anyway, I hope your ratties are doing well and getting along...
 

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