In need of advice about difficult introduction

Hi

I have been trying to introduce my 3 boys to a new boy for 3 weeks now and they just won't accept him. I thought the new boy was around 9-10 weeks old but he may have been older since my boys just wouldn't accept him.

When I first tried introducing them I placed one boy at a time with the new boy on the bed and all my 3 boys reacted in the same way with puffy fur and eventually attacking the little one. Then I tried on the bathroom floor, in a cardboard box and in a carrier with the same result.

Then I tried on a small chair and it went okay the first couple times but then my Alpha started biting the new one. Especially at his feet/bum area. My Alpha does it every time and now one of the others has started doing the exact same thing even though he had been fairly nice for 2 weeks and I had even seen him groom the little one shortly and the little one the same thing to him. My third boy only has getting off the chair on his mind so he doesn't really react to the little one for the short while he's on there, before he jumps off.

They're on the chair 1-2 times every day but now it's just for 10-30 minutes at a time since I'm afraid of the little one getting bit. He was bit pretty badly on the foot the other day so I have to keep a constant eye on them and can't let them get too close to him with their heads.

I have tried giving treats, rubbing them in coconut oil or vanilla syrup for the smell and they live in cages right next to each other.

I'm really torn about this. Is it still possible it can work out? Does anyone have advice about what my next step should be? What have you done to succesfully introduce males that were aggressive with eachother?

Thank you

Try putting a half inch of water in the tub and then putting them in together. It sounds like a joke but it's not. I'm serious. Try it. Let me know how it goes!

You could always try to give them all bath in the same soap. Then try your intros because they will all smell the same somewhat.

Here are the established, gradual intro steps http://www.ratshackforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32368

Usually rats are introed all at the same time.

There are 2 things you can try:
1. put them all on your lap (or just the aggressive boy and the new rattie) for the intro ..... this allows them to get used to one another while feeling safe because they are on you. It also allows you to pet and cuddle a rattie if he starts to show any signs of being afraid, upset or aggressive such as puffy hair ..... so you defuse the situation before it becomes bad. I have found this works well as a first step when rats are aggressive towards a new rattie. Once they have been able to be together many times on your lap for at least 20 mins each time, then you can move on to the neutral area intros ......... I have also found it useful to use this approach when doing the neutral area intro step and one rat starts to look puffy etc. ..................... BUT the danger of this approach is that you may get accidentally bitten

2. Put a couple of inches of comfortable warm water in the bath tub. Water should be shallow enough that the rats can stand on in the water on all fours. Also put something in the tub that all of them can climb onto at the same time to get out of the water (such as a weighted down plastic container with a lid ...... the idea is that they will stand on it together and not harm one another because they are so worried and afraid of the water - this is only done as a last resort ...... once this has gone ok several times then you move on to the neutral area intros step

It is also possible that your boy needs a neuter ..... if so, here is some important information http://www.ratshackforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7691

good luck

Have you had anymore tries? The fact that they are biting his feet and not actually going after him, like biting his neck or genitals is a good sign. I don't think your boys really mean him any harm. I would keep doing intros and every time your guys turn away from the new guy, I would give them treats. To show them that when they leave him alone, good things happen.

Thank you for your advice. I've given them a break and tried letting the old boys hang out in the little one's cage. Tonight I tried letting them meet on the chair again and it didn't go very well. My Alpha acted really aggressively and I had to keep a hand between him and the little one all the time and he even bit my hand as to say "move! I want to bite him". My second boy did well. But my third boy, the one who normally just wants to get off the chair and therefore don't give the little one any attention, he acted very aggressively as well and I had to remove him quickly again.

I unfortunately don't have a tub so I can't try that advice. I've tried on my lap earlier on and same thing happened there.

I don't know what else to try :/

I'm so sad about maybe having to get the little one a new friend and then keeping two cages because I don't want to split my time with them I want to spend all the time I can on them all for the short amount of time that they're here.

Does your shower have a lip that will let it hold water? Or do you have a deep sink?

Yes it does. How do I prevent them from just running out of it though?

It doesn't have a door? If not, I would try simply fielding them first. If that doesn't work you can put up a sheet of plastic they can't climb over.

I couldn't find a way to keep them inside the shower. They kept running out of it. Instead I tried placing a smaller cage in the shower and filled it with a bit of water. Then I put the new one and my most wellbehaved boy inside and it went okay. Then I got the next boy and after a short while he attacked the little one. Immediately after that the first boy started acting up as well. I didn't put my Alpha in with them since he's normally the worst of them.

Ugh. Worth a shot. What about a big sterilite container?

I had an issue with a bully last year. I had gotten two younger boys brothers to be companions for my elderly rat, and they got on great. But one of the brothers died, so I got two new young rats to be companions for my existing youngster for when my oldster died. But the existing youngster, King Jack, did not take to the new guys at all. In fact he terrorised them, taking to sneaking up to their cage and biting whichever body parts he could reach between the bars. The new guys got to the stage where they would start crying whenever they saw him, which seemed to egg him on even more. So eventually I just keep the new guys cage on a desk, King Jack could not climb up to. And kept them, separated for the next few months.

King Jack knew they were there of course but after a while, he gave up on trying to reach them. The new guys were able to establish their own territory on the desk and recover from their terror of King Jack.

Eventually I left a broom near the desk by mistake and King Jack was up like a shot. Now the new guys were much more confident with their territory, and showed much less fear/terror, and King Jack was much more interested in exploring their area and stealing their food. They cautiously followed him around, running away whenever he turned towards them, and there was some dominance pushing by King Jack, but he accepted them.

I know this is victim blaming in a way, but if the bullied get too fearful and traumatised it can just function as a red flag to the bullies, encouraging it. And maybe take a break. I did find having two cages side by side with the bully in one and the bullied in the other to be a failure in my situation. It is just made the bullied constantly fearful even though they were not getting bit, they knew King Jack was there, they could see him.