Eldora - tumor

On Monday I found a lump on her, actually looks like she's growing a testicle. Seems to be growing quickly. Vet says it seems to be attached. Did a needle aspiration and got a lot off fat cells and some blood. Sending the sample off to see if its cancer or not. If it is she does not feel comfortable going in to remove it since she doesn't feel she can get the whole thing. She would remove what she could if its not cancer. This girl is the one that had the bad blood work before her spay.

I'll be interested to hear what the pathology report says.
That girl likes to be mysterious!

My sister had a rat who had a mammary tumour grow in the same spot. It really looked like she developed testicles. An aspiration looked suspicious too but after removal and tests, it was mammary tumour. Sending good vibes to your girl.

Joanne said:

I'll be interested to hear what the pathology report says.
That girl likes to be mysterious!

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jorats said:

My sister had a rat who had a mammary tumour grow in the same spot. It really looked like she developed testicles. An aspiration looked suspicious too but after removal and tests, it was mammary tumour. Sending good vibes to your girl.

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So, got the results a couple days ago, but I don't think I know a whole lot more than I did when I brought her in. It came back as strange round cells/lymphocysts. Possibly lymphoma or an infection of the lymph node - if that makes sense. Although she has never known of a lymph node to be in that area.

Jorats, I mentioned the girl with the mammory tumor there and Aida's girl oreo had a nasty tumor there too, but her after surgery healing was just an awful period.

Because her previous blood work showed ALP of 208 when it should be 80 she believes its most like cancer, but we're going to give her two weeks on baytril to see if it shrinks any and is an infection. Do to location, way it feels, and the fact we have no idea how old she is she really doesn't think surgery is a good option.

Might be growing alittle. Its very hard.

What is ALP? Is that a blood test, can I get details? I would love to ask my vet about bloodwork with rats.

jorats said:

What is ALP? Is that a blood test, can I get details? I would love to ask my vet about bloodwork with rats.

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Yes, it was from her original blood work. The vet said high levels of this usually indicate cancer and they expected to find her full of it when they went in for the spay, but there was nothing. Unless of course, it was hiding until now. When I originally posted this on her spay thread Joanne was nice enough to post this information.

"Very high levels of ALT (more than 10 times normal) are usually due to acute hepatitis, sometimes due to a viral infection. In acute hepatitis, ALT levels usually stay high for about 1-2 months but can take as long as 3-6 months to return to normal. Levels of ALT may also be markedly elevated (sometimes over 100 times normal) as a result of exposure to drugs or other substances that are toxic to the liver as well as in conditions that cause decreased blood flow (ischemia) to the liver.

ALT levels are usually not as high in chronic hepatitis, often less than 4 times normal. In this case, ALT levels often vary between normal and slightly increased, so the test may be ordered frequently to see if there is a pattern. Other causes of moderate increases in ALT include obstruction of bile ducts, cirrhosis (usually the result of chronic hepatitis or bile duct obstruction), heart damage, alcohol abuse, and with tumors in the liver."

We declined another blood test at this time. Just saw a program though in which a ferret had a lymph node/lymphoma with the lump in that area. There was concern over difficulty urinating and pooping. So now I wonder about that since it is right there.

ALT = An alanine aminotransferase (ALT) test measures the amount of this enzyme in the blood. ALT is found mainly in the liver, but also in smaller amounts in the kidneys , heart, muscles, and pancreas . ALT was formerly called serum glutamic pyruvic transaminase (SGPT).

ALP = http://www.healthline.com/health/alp#Overview1

Now I'm not sure if its ALP or ALT, I wrote ALP down, but put ALT in my original post..... Email to vet needed for clarification...

Thank you for that info! Also, how does your vet collect blood work. Many years ago my vet told me that she doesn't do blood work because it would require far too much blood. I'm hoping I can bring her new information or at the very least so I can let her know that I know it's doable and maybe hopefully guilt her into trying.

I've never seen it done since she takes them in back to sedate them, but its done with a syringe.

I'm sure my vet must be aware how to do it properly. A long time ago she told me it had to be though the jugular which would make it difficult but far too many people are now getting blood work done on their rats so I know it's totally doable. Thanks so much for your info Vicki.

Eldora made an appearance at the vet today. She actually just went along with the boys so the vet could get a quick look at her tumor. She said it looks good (for a tumor) doesn't appear to be going too fast or interfering with anything (urinating/pooping). Since she knows she won't be able to get the whole thing we've decided not to attempt a removal.

Well, her tumor is starting to distort her butt hole - pushing it over. She seems fine though. She is such a tiny thing - littlest rat we have! I cannot bring myself to have her pts she is so full of energy. If she's not sleeping she running on the wheel or climbing the bars. If we let them operate 1 - they say they cannot get it all. So I'm afraid that will just leave cancer cell roaming freely throughout her body and more tumors will start appears. Like what happened to Streaker. 2 - the location will make healing difficult for her and deminish her quality of life. 3 - we have no idea how old she is. We're going with two, but if I go with what her previous owner "thinks" she could be over three.

Opinions please ... she has a follow up appointment on Tuesday the 16th.

This is a photo taken a couple of days ago the tumor is between her legs

Poor sweetie. But you know, I bet it bothers us more than it bothers them. They adapt so well. At this point, I would watch for any signs of pain, which it doesn't sound like she has any yet. Keep her happy and comfortable.

jorats said:

Poor sweetie. But you know, I bet it bothers us more than it bothers them. They adapt so well. At this point, I would watch for any signs of pain, which it doesn't sound like she has any yet. Keep her happy and comfortable.

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I'm sure she's not in pain or at least she doesn't appear to be. I just don't know if I'll know when its affecting her bodily functions. She is just a bundle of tiny energy...

She is not a good candidate for surgery - the tumor wraps around her anus. We have switched to another holistic/herbal for a couple weeks and will then go back to the maitake mushroom.

She was at the vet again yesterday and this thing continues to grow, yet she doesn't seem bothered by it. Most of it is growing up toward her back which is good since its not growing inward toward her anus and those parts she uses for bodily functions. She has no poop or urine staining on her fur so everything appears good with that. Will continue to monitor the growth.

So I haven't really posted much on this damn tumor. She saw the vet about week - week and a half ago and it continues to grow, but is still not effecting her urine/poop out put. No urine scalding and she made a big poop for him to see. She's slowing down alittle, but still climbs the bars. She is starting to lose weight. He wants to try and remove it or some of it, but there is no guarantee she'll even survive the procedure and we're talking up to $900 +. We have no idea how old she is - with what her last owner told me she could be as old as 4, but we're thinking 2. Mostly like it will come back aggressively in the same spot or some where else he has told us, but there is a small chance it won't.
Now on to today, it seems to have grown another tumor and its a hard mass. The original tumor seems to have changed in shape too and instead of being one mass it looks lumpy. Her weight loss is obvious and quite frankly I'd have to say her decline has started. I will post a current photo, but keep in mind we have monitored this closely with bi-weekly vet visits to measure it, watched for skin changes or anything that would determine the skin was ulcerating, getting urine scalding, or any damage where it may burst. We've monitored her out put to make sure the tumor did not block off her anus/urether. She showed no signs of weight loss until her last appointment and continued to run on her wheel with this tumor. Until now it has not slowed her down. She is on herbals/holistics, but we choose not to inject it with some caustic stuff that could kill it because it may have worked, but it may have killed her also. There was no guarantee on how she would respond to it. So here it today - Its huge, I know, but the pic makes it look alittle bigger than it is.

That thing is a monster! Hate stupid tumors...

Poor baby girl. I hate tumours!!! But I find that rats seem to adapt really well with their extra appendages.

RatPack said:

That thing is a monster! Hate stupid tumors...

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Yes it is, and it continues to grow. She's had it since October. She is such a little thing to start with.

jorats said:

Poor baby girl. I hate tumours!!! But I find that rats seem to adapt really well with their extra appendages.

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I hate this one too. I hate even more that she is still so freakin' lively. I keep waiting for her to tell me she is ready and waiting, and waiting, and waiting..... I took her to the vet this morning thinking today is the day. We agreed that when she could no longer perform bodily functions we would have her pts. Today she had poop in her anus just sitting there. I didn't not make this appointment, it was actually Clark's, but since he left us on Friday, I took her in. Once again she proved me wrong and showed us all she was having no problem pooping or urinated. She has no problem cleaning her tumor - she showed us. No urine scalding, no skin breakdown, she is full of energy, drinking, and fought her sister this morning when she tried to steal her blueberry muffin.. Vet said he couldn't see having her pts either when she still showed so much life in her. So all we did was decide to give her metacam since something that size has to be uncomfortable...