Rat and mouse housed together, help?

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KatTheHippie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
1,045
Location
Long Island, New York
Oi vey, it's barely been days since we lost Dover, and I feel like he's sending rescues my way!

A friend tagged me in this picture, it's from my local animal shelter. I assumed it was of 2 rats, one being younger. My original plan was to adopt them, spay if females, and eventually intro them into my mischief. But then when I was looking for more info on them, I found out it's a rat and a mouse, and they're living together? I'm waiting to hear back from the shelter with more info, I'd be more than happy to take these guys in, but I'm just worried because I've heard that rats and mice aren't supposed to interact because the rat could kill the mouse since they see them as prey in the wild. So if I do adopt them, should I separate and put the rat with my group, and get a friend for the mouse? House the mouse alone (I've heard mixed things about mice needing companions or not)? What if they get along, and really truly love each other? Should I leave them be? I really need some help!

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ratmouse.png
 
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I've also heard that rats will kill mice, but this rat seems to be conditioned to accept this mouse as a companion. I'd think the safest thing for the mouse would be to separate them, but I would defer to the opinions of those who have more experience with rats and mice...
 
The mouse may be very good buds with this rat, but be at risk with any other rat. If they have been living together for a while, then it would seem cruel to break up this friendship.
 
Oh boy, what a situation! I think if these two are bonded, they should remain together but no other rats and no other mice should be added to them.
 
Oh boy, what a situation! I think if these two are bonded, they should remain together but no other rats and no other mice should be added to them.

This is what I'm thinking, I may just house them together, in their own space, and see how things play out. If the mouse looks that big, it means the rat must be young, so maybe the predatory instincts just haven't quite kicked in yet. If there's any sign of even the slightest aggression, I think I'll separate and put the ratty with my group, and house the mouse with a friend of it's own gender.

My biggest fear is that the stress of relocating will trigger something in the rat that will cause it to hurt the mouse. But I don't want to break their hearts by separating them.. I think I might just have to make the judgement call after seeing them in person.
 
I think a lot would depend on how long those two have been together. If they haven't been living together for very long, I'd *personally* want to remove the mouse and get a rat buddy for the rat.
but I don't know a whole lot about mice. I'd be worried that they wouldn't understand each other at some point and no matter how bonded they might be, a misunderstanding due to different body language or how they read each other's intentions could end badly. Do mice and rats share the same body language and hierarchy structure, etc?

I'd probably want them to be the same room where they could see and smell each other, but- the worry wart that I am!- I'd be awfully nervous to leave them together.

do you know yet how long they've lived like that?

I watch the skunks in my neighborhood hang out with the outdoor cats and it fascinates me, I had no idea they could co exist as they do, I assumed they'd be afraid of each other. It's always interesting to see how different species interact.

are there any cases of mice and rats living together without incident? I guess that would be a hard thing to find out...
hrmmmm
runs off to google
 
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Do mice and rats share the same body language and hierarchy structure, etc?

do you know yet how long they've lived like that?


are there any cases of mice and rats living together without incident?

- I have no idea about the hierarchy. I honestly don't know much about mice at all, I only really know about rats. I have to do some serious research.

I have NO idea how long they've been together. I'm hoping the shelter knows and will tell me when they respond. I agree, if they haven't been together long, then I'll probably separate.

I've asked a few different rat/mouse groups on facebook what they think, and some people have told me horror stories about their rats killing their mice, and others have posted pictures and told me happy stories about their mice and rats coexisting in peace, some until one of them passes and they were introed in with their own species, some are still living together.
 
yeh my very cursory google search turned up about the same thing, some horror stories and a few instances where a single mouse lived with one or two rats and was fine.

not a whole lot to go on!

the only thing I know about mice is that their pee smells very bad and is very strong. I had a baby wild mouse in my house for just a few days and I could easily pinpoint where he'd been by the smell of his pee. It was horrible! he was cute and all, but I was very relieved when I found him in a box and quickly ushered him back outside.
 
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Thank you so much! I've heard the same thing about mouse smells, but I'll guess we'll see :/ I couldn't adopt the rat and leave the mouse, I would feel awful, and I know that no one in my area would take it in. I'd rather he be safe with me and stink up my place a bit, haha.
 
When rats and mice are raised together, such as when an orphan is placed with a nursing mama and her litter.
then the babies all grow up thinking they are siblings and are bonded. ..... so the mouse and the rat may be adoptive siblings

I assume that if young babies are placed together it might also be ok, since babies see another baby as a new playmate and bond (at least they do when they are the same species) .... but I would never suggest anyone try this

So if they are a bonded pair, I would leave them together
Otherwise the mouse is in horrible danger as rats see mice as prey and will kill them

As others have said, the mouse will be ripped apart if it comes within reach of other rats :(
and if any other mice were added to the pair, the rat would kill them


If the mouse is an older girl, it is possible that the mouse is the rat's adoptive mama
 
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My sister loves mice so we had quite a few as children. She got one - Minnie and we got Minnie a friend, Misty. Misty got really fat and one day my mom went to pick her up to show her adult friend, that also kept mice as pets, and she wasn't fat anymore! There were however, little pink things under her. Minnie was NOT a Minnie! However, Minnie (now named Mickey) was still in the cage - I don't suppose I have to tell you what happened all over again. Misty chewed limbs and tails off her first liter (probably because my mom touched them - you cannot touch baby mice). We kept those and no matter how many times I told my mom she had a boy in with two girls (I figured out the gonad thing at this point) she wanted to wait until the vet told her that. You guessed it - 17 more babies by two mommies....

The point of my story is mice can live together. Hamsters cannot, I've had those too. Had I known about rats 30 years ago .... I really missed out. Mice stink - even one stinky, stinky, stinky... You really need to kept them in an enclosed cage, be an aquarium or plastic cages they make for them - they will squeeze between the bars on any cage meant for a rat. You can see in that picture they are in a tank.
 
My sister loves mice so we had quite a few as children. She got one - Minnie and we got Minnie a friend, Misty. Misty got really fat and one day my mom went to pick her up to show her adult friend, that also kept mice as pets, and she wasn't fat anymore! There were however, little pink things under her. Minnie was NOT a Minnie! However, Minnie (now named Mickey) was still in the cage - I don't suppose I have to tell you what happened all over again. Misty chewed limbs and tails off her first liter (probably because my mom touched them - you cannot touch baby mice). We kept those and no matter how many times I told my mom she had a boy in with two girls (I figured out the gonad thing at this point) she wanted to wait until the vet told her that. You guessed it - 17 more babies by two mommies....

The point of my story is mice can live together. Hamsters cannot, I've had those too. Had I known about rats 30 years ago .... I really missed out. Mice stink - even one stinky, stinky, stinky... You really need to kept them in an enclosed cage, be an aquarium or plastic cages they make for them - they will squeeze between the bars on any cage meant for a rat. You can see in that picture they are in a tank.

I was told that female mice do well with other mice, but males might hurt eachother, but female ASF's do well with male mice as companions. So I'll be researching that a bit more :) My step dad just recently upgraded his bearded dragon Leonard to a larger tank, so I know we have a pretty big one in storage in the basement right now, so that's perfect for the little mouse if he has to be separated :)
 
SQ, I didn't even think that the mouse might be a surrogate mom to the ratty, I'll have to see. Rich and I are swinging by the shelter tomorrow to visit these guys, and see them for ourselves. We'll hopefully be taking them home.
 
Male mice are super terrotorial and will fight suddenly. If he decides to do that with that rat...you will bury him. I can't believe a shelter left him with bim they need to be split up the risk isnt worth the benefit which I cant can't think of one benenfit. I am unsure why would even be saying this could be ok because it isnt. If one person see this and thinks they should try it then what?
 
SQ, I didn't even think that the mouse might be a surrogate mom to the ratty, I'll have to see. Rich and I are swinging by the shelter tomorrow to visit these guys, and see them for ourselves. We'll hopefully be taking them home.

I doubt it too ... was just throwing out a possibility
 
I don't think mice have to be kept in a tank, I believe a friend with mice who uses Martin's cages with a small enough grid that they can't get out, probably the same powder coated ones they make for rats. I'll ask her.

I don't know if their resp systems are as fragile as rats but I'd be worried about that in a tank or solid plastic cage w/ little ventilation. Not to mention the smell. My sister had a mouse years (decades) ago in a plastic cage and the smell gets into the plastic and no amount of cleaning could get rid of it.

I know someone else who has an ASF they plan to intro do their mouse, I'll ask her how its' going. I think her mouse is a female though.
 
So Rich and I went to the shelter today, and yes, it's definitely a mouse in with this rat. The rat's a big boy too! He's definitely an adult, probably around a year, give or take a few weeks. He's a cutie, and very sweet but doesn't quite like to be held. The mouse is shy, it kept running so I didn't try to pick it up, but I let it sniff my fingers and I pet it's head. Man it's ears are big, haha! I'm not sure if the mouse is male or female yet, I couldn't get it to sit still enough to see.

We filled out an adoption application, but were approved while we were there because I personally know a few of the staff members, and our vet gave us a great refrence. We'll be picking them up tomorrow. The shelter made it really clear to me that they needed to be adopted together because they were afraid one might pass from heart break if they were separated, but we'll wait and see how they do when they're here. If they're really truly bonded, I don't think I'll separate. But if there's any tension at all, they're definitely going to not be living together.
 
that sounds like a very sensible plan. were they able to tell you how long the rat and mouse have lived together?

I just noticed where you live, gonna send you a PM i used to live on LI ( a long time ago)
 
that sounds like a very sensible plan. were they able to tell you how long the rat and mouse have lived together?

They said that, as far as they know they've been together their whole lives. You can see by the way they interact that they're definitely close. But the shelter doesn't have too many details, because someone left them outside of the doors at night while the shelter was closed, and the staff arrived to find them the next morning.
 
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