Is it time to let him go?

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edt94

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My rat, Socrates, has struggled with a slew of health issues his entire life. He lost nearly all of his mobility about 3 days ago, and my Vet suspects it's a progressed brain tumor and has me giving him Metacam.

Here's a video of him that I took on Monday: [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFXs2S-LuX4[/ame]

He doesn't appear to be in pain and has been enjoying cuddles and nursing care the past few days, but he can't do a whole lot aside from scooting across the floor. He spends most of his day in a crinkle tunnel and I'm unsure if he's eating or drinking much. Save for a few nibbles, he's refusing his favorite treats like yogurt, meat, cheese, and even whipped cream. It's hard for me to consider this while he still enjoys when I pet him and tries his best to scoot around and play, but I'd also hate for him to get to a point where he's very unhappy. :/ Advice?
 

Thanks, but he's unfortunately refusing the treats I used to mask his previous meds now. Would they help him regain strength or just keep him alive? Not sure what route to take...
 
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Not going to lie, treating PT is hard! Not only do you have to keep on the medication schedule. You'll also have to give antibiotics since the steriods weaken the immune system and it doesn't hurt to give liquid pepcid. You will also have to syringe feed and give fluids. PT rats lose weight very fast. Does your boy hold anything in his front paws - if he doesn't your vet is most likely correct on the brain tumor/PT
 
I'd just hate to have the last of our days involve me forcing him to intake liquids and medications... :/ No he doesn't, all of his paws are pretty limp. He has to curl them to move. Just trying to decide what to do tonight.
 
That's exactly how I felt treating my boys. That they were going to remember me as the mean person also sticking and injecting stuff into them.

I'm sorry you have to go through this PT is awful. Just snuggle with him and keep him safe.
 
It's a tough call. If the only way he will get fluids / food is to force him due to him refusing or not interested then that is not good. He may not be able to swollow any way.

I will not say what you should do, but if / when mine reach the point of not taking food & water , that would be 1 of the times I would consider to pts. He might pass on his own very soon, maybe tonight. Do what your heart tells you. Do what you think is best for him. I feel for you & am so sorry about your boy. He love his beige colored face.:heart:
 
I am very sorry
Rats can live a long time and be healthy, happy and have a good life with support in spite of not having the use of their hind legs

However, pt is a different story ..... but I am not suggesting that he has pt, it could be something else
I have always chosen to treat pt at least with a steroid and antibiotics, but others chose not to
A steroid such as prednisone or dex (+ antibiotic) may reduce swelling and give your rattie more good quality time if he has a brain tumour that is slow growing.
This can also help rats who have had a stroke

Bromocriptine and cabergoline reduce the size of some types of pt ...... and may allow a rattie to have a lot of good quality time - it depends on the tumour. Some rats experience unpleasant side effects esp with bromo - Godmother and Lilspaz68 could tell you how to minimize this.

If he isn't eating or drinking, you can decide to try to treat him, or let him go

If he is dehydrated you can get your vet to show you how to give sub-Q fluids and sell you what you will need.
You test to see if your boy is dehydrated by pulling up the skin on the back of the neck and seeing if it snaps back into place.
If it does, he isn't dehydrated http://www.ratshackforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5076
Dehydration will make rats weak and can kill so being well hydrated is very important.

Are his teeth ok?
Feeding his lab blocks with added cold water to make mush, watermelon, organic soy infant formula (or ensure) thickened with baby cereal, baby food, etc will be easier for him to eat and will help to keep him hydrated

If you decide to have Socrates put to sleep, please make sure it is done humanely - most vets do not know how to do it humanely so you need to be a strong advocate for him and make sure it is done properly

Here is some important information http://www.ratshackforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7652

I am so sorry
I had to have my boy put to sleep on Monday so I know what you are going through
Give Socrates a cuddle from me

{{hugs}}
 
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I let my PT boy go when his health diminished severely. I think treating is a good option if they are in good shape. Personally, I never keep a pet alive if I have to force them to do things. But, it is your decision. He is beautiful. I wish you luck with whatever you choose. My rats and I send lots of love :heart: :hugs:
 
Thanks for the great advice and kind words everyone. My sympathies go out to everyone who's also experienced this. He's been treated for so many things for so long that I think my decision is to not continue with medication now that he's refusing them. I think my vet was under the same impression when I brought him in a couple weeks ago. He hadn't lost mobility yet, but he had deteriorated enough for her to warn me that our goal was simply comfort until the time came. He did so well taking his meds for so long that I think I need to trust him now that he seems to be letting go. He's peaceful today, so I decided not to take him in tonight, but I think I'm going to call around tomorrow and make sure there's a vet near by that will do it properly since he's not eating or drinking much. If I understood the article correctly, I'm simply to avoid a muscular injection correct? Euthenasia should be vascular but not direct to the heart?

As sad as this is, it is still wonderfully fulfilling to have raised pets with such a strong bond. I'd never had that before growing up. Never really knew how to take care of animals. It's so endearing to have pets that go through the whole phase of life, from a playful baby to a sweet and cuddly senior.
 
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Most people on here think that the best method is for the vet to gas them down(with isofluorane), check for reflexes to make sure they are in a deep sleep, and then the shot to the heart or abdomen. Here is the thread on euthanasia: http://www.ratshackforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7652 . That's what I did with my sweet boy Malcolm. I'm so sorry that you are going through this, but he knows that he is loved and taken well care of. I have been down this road so many times and it never gets any easier, but you know that you gave him the best life and treated him so well. He seems like such a sweet heart, give him kisses from me :tumkiss:
 
Yes, they get the isofluorane gas-oxygen mix that is used to put animals under for surgery.
When they are deeply unconscious (vet checks to make sure there are no reflexes), then they are injected with the correct dosage of sodium pentobarbital, using a 27 - 29 gauge needle.
As Zanya said, vets inject into the heart or the abdomen. The important thing is that your rat is deeply unconscious, as deep or deeper then he would be for surgery, so that he does not suffer.
The rat continues to breath in the gas-oxygen mix and needs to stay unconscious until he dies.

If possible, you need to be with your rat to comfort him and to make sure it is done properly.
Never allow a conscious rat to be injected.

I agree with Zanya, it never gets any easier.
 
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I have a wonderful rat vet who gives my rats Xylazine intranasally before giving the gas anesthetic prior to the injection in the heart. Xylazine makes them drowsy and much more accepting of having a mask over their nose while the anesthetic gas is administered. Just a few drops of Xylazine in their nostrils helps them relax and mellow out.

Everyone here has given such wonderful suggestions. I truly feel for you and Socrates and know you will do what's best for him and know when the time comes.
 
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If you are able to get quick treatment, Dex injections, either Dex to take home or pred asap, he might respond, but he might not so you have to be prepared for this as well. If you decide on treatment then once youbget a good response to the steroid, you have to convince your vet to give you a prescription of bromocriptine.
Once a PT rat refuses to eat and drink, they usually pass within 24 hours. I am so sorry!
 
It is a touch call... I've had plenty of pt rats and most respond to dex or pred alone. I have yet to have a PT rat respond to bromo or cabergoline although, many others here on the forum has had great success. The dex can work on even his late stage of progress. But it's up to you if you want to give him a bit more time or let him go naturally. My vet told me that when a rat has a pt, it is it's natural decline. When my pt rats are clearly not suffering, even if they stop eating, I keep them at home until they pass peacefully with me and their buddies.
 
If your giving the metacam the vet gave you, you CANNOT give pred or dex for 48-72 hours after stopping the metacam.....

My vet gives our babies a shot that relaxs/knocks them out, then they get the gas and final shot to the heart. We get to hold them the entire time.... Sorry again!
 
Follow your heart. If he seems peaceful and content, it is OK to let him go on his own. My rats have always been so active; it is nice to be able to love them and snuggle them when they are older and infirm.
 
Thanks so much, everyone. After a lot of thought, I decided to have him put down today. The vet was very empathetic to it being my first time witnessing a euthanasia. She walked me through the whole thing beforehand, and I was able to test his eye reflex before the shot was administered and have alone time afterwards to allow my remaining rat say goodbye. The process went very smoothly and it seemed quite peaceful.

RIP Socrates. Love you, buddy. :flowers2:
 
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