When antibiotics fail...

So Discord and I have been battling his URI since last Fall...

He was on a baytril antibiotics for three months but soon as he came off, within a week he relapsed. We have been on a double mix of Baytril/Doxy mix for awhile now, and for two weeks he was doing much better. But now he's relapsed again despite still being on it. The medicine is not having much effect.

I know we all talk about steam therapy, but my rats don't like the neb machine, it makes a ton of noise, and I don't want to stress my ratty out with just a temp 'comfort' solution. I want a cure...something to get rid of this thing for good! What other medicines are there when the norm no longer works??? mg2:

I think first off you need to know that he will likely never be rid of it. Your goal should be to keep him as symptom-free and comfortable as possible, knowing that he will probably need to be on meds for the rest of his life.
I would look for a different combination of drugs or add one like azithromycin.
One of my girls was on her last legs, and as a last ditch effort we tried prednisone. It gave her many more months, so I think it may have been inflammatory in nature for her.

I agree with the neb - I don't use it either. My boys came out worse than they went in. Have you had an x-ray done to make sure its a uri and not a mass/tumor in his chest/heart area? Unfortunately the symptoms can seem the same. Also unfortunately, I know this too well. That being said, you can try adding theophylline to what your already doing, but I agree I believe you have a lifer on your hands. Good luck

If you can get zithro that is a good drug to switch out with. It has helped us here. With chronic rats we just keep them on meds, once a day usually it is enough to keep them stable but that all depends on the rats.

Try baytril + azithromycin (10 mg/Ib), orally, twice a day

or baytril + azithromycin (10 mg/Ib) + doxy, orally, twice a day

If you weigh him, we can double check to make sure he is getting the correct amount
Azithromycin is from a pharmacy by prescription from your vet

If there is fluid in his lungs then he might need Lasix as well
(you would need to learn how to give sub-Q fluids and get the equipment from your vet, dehydration can kill)

Sometimes a bronchodilator (puffer) can help

There is always the possibility as suggested previously, of a mass in the chest
or heart disease ... if the antibiotics suggested don't help, then you can test dose for a heart issue

SQ said:

Try baytril + azithromycin (10 mg/Ib), orally, twice a day

or baytril + azithromycin (10 mg/Ib) + doxy, orally, twice a day

If you weigh him, we can double check to make sure he is getting the correct amount
Azithromycin is from a pharmacy by prescription from your vet

If there is fluid in his lungs then he might need Lasix as well
(you would need to learn how to give sub-Q fluids and get the equipment from your vet, dehydration can kill)

Sometimes a bronchodilator (puffer) can help

There is always the possibility as suggested previously, of a mass in the chest
or heart disease ... if the antibiotics suggested don't help, then you can test dose for a heart issue

Click to expand...

He weighs 1.5.lbs exactly.

My big guns are baytril and zithro combo and it works almost all of the time but it takes a long time though. In one case, 3 months which cleared his lungs completely.

I could try that suggestion but I do know for a fact since he's on a baytril/doxy mix, he's not responding to it at all. There's no improvement.

I've tried the shower method of doing steam therapy. It helps for a little while, he stops making the noise at least for about 20mins before going right back to it. Only relief he seems to get is when he "sneezes" and it clears a little, then back to the noises again.

Last night though he was really upset with sitting in an unknown place "the bathroom", even with me stroking him the whole time. The shower was loud, it made him so nervous he was shaking and fear boggling. It took about 5mins into the treatment before he settled down.

I'm telling myself it gave him some relief... But this is TX guys, our water supply is hurting, I'm using up all the hot water to make this much steam, and if its making him upset I don't want to do it. I'm gonna keep up with the medicine till it runs out then contact my vet again to try something else.

How about filling up your kettle and bringing it to the bathroom? Plug it in and let it boil away. You only use a very small amount of water and power yet it really steams things up.

If he has fluid in his lungs, then the steam will make him want to get away as it will add even more fluid.

Seriously, try zithro + baytril (and + doxy if necessary)
you might also try a bronchodilator

What are you giving the doxy/baytril with? I ask because it says on the vet bottle for baytril NOT to give it with milk. Upon looking this up further, it's the calcium in milk that prevents baytril from working as well. I had been giving one of my rats baytril with soymilk + baby food without realizing that all the calicum in soymilk (which is 150% times that of regular milk) must have been preventing him from getting better.

Ratguide says to avoid "GI products containing calcium, iron, or zinc may reduce its absorption. It is suggested to separate dosing from any of these products by 2 hours."

That is, this is only relevant depending on the treats you give with the medicine. Just figured I'd share in case you are doing what I did.

Interestingly enough there is a drug interaction between Enrofloxacin and Theophylline. (As another FYI...)

"(in dogs, the clearance of theophylline was reduced by 43% with concurrent administration of enrofloxacin [5 mg per kg of body weight every 24 hours]; peak serum concentration of theophylline was significantly increased; the {R-62} pharmacokinetics of enrofloxacin were unaffected)
(the concurrent administration of a fluoroquinolone with other drugs metabolized by hepatic enzymes may affect the pharmacokinetics of one or both drugs;{R-1}"

Sadly I do not have a tea pot kettle.

I also give him these anitibiotics straight up orally, not mixed with anything, just so I know he's getting it all in and taking it up front without the risk of it not working due to mixture contamination issues. He doesn't like it of course but he's learned to struggle less with it when i give it to him because he knows I'll give him a treat right after.

All your tips are very helpful and I'll take it under advisement when I go to seek another opinion at a different vet. Kaia from the CTRR, told me about the vet she takes her rescued ratties to, which is the North Austin Animal Hospital. They are actually a bit closer then my current vet, and she informed me the prices are very resonable. I hope this is the case.

I love my other vet and he's been great with my rats, but I think even he's pickled on Discord's case, so I'm gonna get another opinion and see what they can do after I inform them of what we've already tried.

have you tried zithro (10 mg/Ib twice a day+ baytril? if not please do so

Spending $20 on a kettle would be much less expensive and more environmentally friendly than running a shower with no one in it.

Well we got our second opinion:

After conducting an xray and explaining the other treatments we went through. This vet concluded Discord in fact has phenmonia.

The xray showed he had a bit of fluid in his lungs so its a slight case, by his mycoplasma is out of control. And since he's not responding to the more powerful antibiotics I've been giving him, vet didn't feel confident in the other suggestions of anitibotics that were mentioned here. The best the vet could tell me was to try an antibiotic we've not used before, and since zithro is really expensive for us here in TX, he perscribed us with Trimeth/Sulfa. Now I did do my research on this when I got home, and its supposedly not effective against mycoplasma. However Discord isn't responding to the stronger of their anitbiotics, Baytril/Doxy. There's no point in using those if he's not responding to it and I have to agree.

So we're giving this a shot despite, but at least I know that if he doesn't respond to this treatment then I am going with another drug known as Tetracycline if they have it. If not then I'll try Zithro. He also highly recommended, despite my rats hate it... is to do steam therapy or Nebulization therapy twice a day along with the medicine twice a day.

So far though discord eats like a pig! He still plays with his bro at night, and drinks well, so I'm not worried yet. But I want to nick this thing, or at least keep him comfortable because odds are I have a perment illed rat for the rest of his life.

Luckily this vet is willing to work with me on perscription pricing. The meds I got there were only 17$

Good luck, I hope it works for him. Fingers crossed!

Fingers crossed for your little one.
I have a group of 5 right now who are all battling the same thing. Resp infections suck :/

If Discord in fact has pneumonia, then steam will make it more difficult for him to breath as you will be adding more fluid to the fluid he already has in his lungs
(btw, using a nebulizer will make rats with heart issues worse - I stopped using and sold my nebulizer many years ago because of this)
Lasix in the short term, may help as it will remove fluid from his lungs while the antibiotics have a chance to work

Hope the meds you are trying work
Doxy is doxycycline and it didn't help so I'm wondering why you would try tetracycline (same family)

Baytril + azithromycin (10mg/Ib to 15 mg/Ib) orally, twice a day for at least 6 weeks if it is helping, is an effective combination
It is much more effective and stronger then any of the combos you have tried.
Yes, it is relatively expensive. Many people divide the azithromycin powder in two before mixing it because it is only good for 10 days once mixed.
Azithromycin by itself is not effective enough so both baytril + azithromycin need to be given.

Hope Discord is soon feeling beter