My boys have begun fighting

I have two young unaltered males who are around the age of six months old. They have been with one another since I got them as babies. Today as I was getting ready to head to a meeting they got into a fight in their cage. I am not sure what started it, but they were squeaking and jumping all over the cage. Peter was pinning Ty, and Ty ended up with a few minor scratches on his legs. I have never noticed behavior like this from them before. They have had a few, rare scuffles, but never anything as loud as this, and never anything that left a mark.
I understand that this is a sign that I should probably think about getting them neutered, which I have known was a possibility since I got them. I currently have them separated, as afterwards Ty was hiding in the bottom corner of the cage and did not seem comfortable venturing to the upper levels or the hammocks where they normally hang out. Ty does not seem very happy where he is though. I was wondering, if I got them neutered how long after the surgeries I would be able to put them back together? Also, is there any possibility that this was an isolated incident?

Is it possible that they were just playing?

I don't believe it was playing. I've seen them play a bunch when I have them out and this was different. Ty's squeaks were much louder and sounded more frantic. Also after further inspection I've noticed that he has a few more scratches along his back and sides.

This evening I took the boys out for playtime and the base of Ty's tail and his scrotum are covered in scratches and scabs. Peter is definitely picking on him. I immediately ran out an bought a temporary cage for Peter. He will be in that until I can get the two of them neutered, hopefully in mid March.I feel awful, I should've taken it more seriously the first time they got into a fight. But they hadn't seemed to be having any problems since.
They get along well outside of the cage when they can each do their own thing. Maybe they need a bigger cage once I get them neutered? I currently have them in a Martin's R-685, which is what the rescue sold to me when I adopted my first two boys. Maybe I should look into a CN?
Peter was not pleased to be in a new cage, but he has settled down and is sleeping in a hammock. I will have to make a Dollar General run tomorrow to get supplies to make shelves with. His cage is dismally bare at the moment. Ty seems content though. He is stretched out on the upper level of his cage napping next to the food bowl. I feel horrible that the two have to be separated.

I know how distressing it feels to have your rats begin fighting when they previously hadn't been. Neutering sounds like a good idea. I don't know exactly how long it takes for the aggression to go away post-neuter. I do know that they become sterile 3-6 weeks post surgery.

Even though it feels terrible to separate Ty and Peter for now, you're definitely doing the right thing! It will seem like "forever" before you can have them live together again but, before you know it, you'll be looking back on this time period and will be glad you separated them.

Are you going to have Ty's wounds examined by your vet? The last time I had two boys who started fighting, I took the injured one to an emergency vet. The veterinarian found at least one additional gash that I hadn't noticed. Sometimes antibiotics can be needed, too.

I just looked online and see there’s a fantastic sale on a Critter Nation cage at wag.com. On Petsmart’s website, this cage is listed at $244.99. On wag.com it’s on sale for $170.99. Clicking on this Critter Nation link will take you to the page where you can order this cage online. If you do choose to order using this link, I will get a very small portion of the sale at no extra cost to you. (…..which helps to fund my website). Hope it's okay for me to post this here.

That's great you were able to run right out and get the second cage. You could switch them back and forth between the two cages for now. One word of caution: Even though they seem like they're fine together when outside the cage, I'd be extra vigilant to make sure Peter doesn't suddenly turn on Ty when they are both out. You probably already know the signs that show a rat is about to attack but, just in case: Puffed up fur (fur standing on end), Sideways stance while kicking the other rat with a hind leg, Standing erect about to "duke it out", are all indicative that a fight is about to break out.

Thank you so much for the support. I am going to keep a eye on Ty's scabs. There's really only one that I am slightly concerned about possible getting infected, and luckily my vet is my boss. So, at the first signs of heat or redness I can bring him in.

I will definitely try to switch them back and forth between the two cages, and keep a major eye on them when they are out together. Unfortunately being a college student I don't think I can afford both a CN and two neuters at the same time. Luckily I had a small savings for times like this, and for the hopes of getting a dog in the near future (although I think that might be out of the question now lol). But, it will be at least another month or two before I can really look into a bigger cage. However, I will certainly keep that website in mind when the time comes.

Thank you again, your reply helped put my mind at ease and assured me that I am handling this correctly.

It is very important to make sure they spend a lot of time together so that you don't have to do intros in a month. Unless it's really bad, I would keep them together. And since they would be neutered at the same time, there is no need to separate them after the surgery as they will both feel a bit sore.

Scuffles and even a little harder fighting is normal...but when you see injuries so close to the testicles or abdomen, then you know your bully means business. Peter definitely needs a neuter and if you can afford one for Ty, then even better.
Like Joanne mentions, do keep having out time/play time together. Try and make it fun for them with new treats and make them run after a feather or climb boxes and such.
They will need a week to recover and then I would try a move in again after a full cage scrub down.
BTW, how big is the main cage?

I plan to keep doing playtime together with them so long as they continue to play well, but I will definitely keep them separated until after neuters. I am not around enough to be able to monitor them all of the time while they're in the cage. I hate to think that the bullying would continue, or even get worse during my absences.

The main cage is a R-685, which is 30"x18"x24" and has two platforms with ramps. I saw that the CN are $151.49 on WAG.com, and am really considering getting one depending on the estimate my vet gives me tomorrow on the neuters. The only fun thing will be figuring out where to put it in my teeny apartment bedroom

I have two neuters scheduled for March 12th There is no way I can swing a CN at the moment, even with the steep discount on WAG.com right now. That will have to be something I save up for, but it is definitely a goal for the near future. Maybe in a couple of months.

Good luck with the neuters! It may take a while for the hormones to dissipate afterwards, so don't get discouraged if the behaviour doesn't change right away.

Thank you Joanne.

Playtime did not go very well this evening. It took all of five minutes for them to get into a fight. The more I watch I am able to see that Ty is the instigator. This doesn't surprise me, as he is the one that I have problems with biting my hands in the cage. He relentlessly followed Peter around and bit and tugged on his back and butt. I'm assuming that in the cage Peter just gets fed up and a fight occurs, and thats how Ty got all beat up.

I stopped the situation as soon as it looked like it was about to get out of hand. They started doing the side stance and I separated them. It looks like I will have to re-intro them after their neuters. So, I will probably be asking for more advice on that in a few weeks time.

I was afraid that would happen---that they'd begin fighting outside the cage. You're doing a great job of monitoring and managing the situation. So glad you're getting them neutered.

One thing I've found helpful with introductions is to place them together in short bursts of time. That way they don't have time to get into a fight and you're only allowing them to have positive interactions. Another thing that's helpful is allowing them to explore something/somewhere they've never been before. I recently successfully introduced two girls. One of the best encounters was when I placed them together inside a cage neither of them had been in before. They were running around exploring and it was like they were on the same team, figuring out this cage together!

Keep us posted and keep up the great work!

Just got home from dropping the boys off for their neuters. I am surprisingly nervous, although I trust my vet and am sure everything will go well. I hope Ty and Peter both behave themselves today. Especially Ty, he can be a biter when he gets overwhelmed.
I won't know what to do all day. My college is on spring break this week, and I've been spending most of the time trying to give Ty and Peter extra play time since they're currently living alone.

Sending healing vibes for the sweeties!

Just got a call from the vet (a little earlier than I was expecting). Apparently Ty started to not do so well under the anesthesia. She got is left side done before his breathing got shallow, so she had to stop there. She called just to let me know what was happening, from the sound of it he is stable now. I am horrible with knowing what questions to ask in these situations, I just say "ok" and "I agree" and then after she hung up the phone I started to think of all the things I wish I had asked. She is in surgery right now with Peter, hopefully all goes well with him. I need to go find something to do to keep me busy.

Got another call. She just got out of surgery with Peter and he did awesome. She said Ty has just decided that he wants to be the problem child. He is already messing with the incision. He really doesn't make anything easy. He will obviously be going back to have the other side done once he is fully healed.
The boys are actually going to stay the night, mostly because I am going to be there all day tomorrow for work, so it not only saves me the two 30 minute drives there and back this afternoon, but I can also keep an eye on them tomorrow while I'm there. I am so relieved that they're done, although not looking forward to doing Ty again in a couple of weeks.

Well it's great that your vet was keeping such a close eye on him. Better to go back another day than lose him. :nod:
I hope they heal up well!

Joanne said:

Well it's great that your vet was keeping such a close eye on him. Better to go back another day than lose him. :nod:
I hope they heal up well!

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I agree Thanks so much. I can't wait to get them back home. My room feels so empty without them.