Bear (seizures) is now at Peace <3

Sadly TheHermit had to hand off her seizure boy Bruce to me along with his brother who bullied the other sick boys in their cage. She had her plate full with 2 sick boys who will need antibiotics all the rest of their lives.

The boys met my oldies and did well, beyond the usual rude butt hoisting of sickies/oldies that I had to quell a bit LOL

I set up a cage for them behind my computer (where I spend a LOT of time) so I can watch Bear carefully and hear any issues at night.

Kailan was able to get these videos of Bear on Nov. 22nd

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMoMYEMLe3I[/ame]

and a day later, where you can see him batting at the air...

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6EBNhcoipM[/ame]

In the early hours of the morning, I heard banging and scuffling and wasn't sure if it was the boys "being boys" or if poor Bear was having a seizure I left it.

This morning I noticed Bear seemed not himself, and agitated, then he approached his brother and was almost defensive. Bruce turned away and then Bear would try to hump him, and bite at the back of his neck...not really serious but enough to confuse his brother. I wasn't sure if these were after effects of the seizures but did remmber that Eli came out of his very aggressive and dangerous, so I assumed so.

Then I saw this bit from Kailan on the bottom of the first video...

"It's been a while, due to YouTube and my internet not getting along. He's still on high alert and has started to aggressively hump his brother. He keeps biting people on the face, too. He seems panicked and very irritable"

So at least I will know when he has had one.

Now I need to do a seizure log, how often, any triggers, duration, severity, and how long and well he recovers from them. Once I have a baseline for him, I will send her videos and my observations to Dr Munn, then bring him to the clinic.

They are both such sweet big boys. :heart:

They certainly are in good hands, but I'm sure she misses them having to rehome them must of been a very difficult decision.

dspch911 said:

They certainly are in good hands, but I'm sure she misses them having to rehome them must of been a very difficult decision.

Click to expand...

It was difficult emotionally, but theres no way to justify keeping them. Even with my parents stepping in to help with the URIs, I just don't have the time, resources or experience to get the help Bear needs Even if I could get to Dr. Munn myself I wouldn't be able to afford it or return visits.

But knowing that he IS getting to see Dr. Munn and he IS getting being watched carefully and he IS with experienced hands takes 80% of the hurt away I just need updates and maybe pics of him eating and Bruce dozing. Bear is a cute eater, he one-hands a lot hehe and Bruce poses when he's relaxed.

It also helps that Klaus and Al don't seem to be missing them

I'm glad Lilspaz is able to help and I'll be interested in hearing what Dr. Munn has to say and suggest.
Just to recap, is Bear on medication right now?

Joanne said:

I'm glad Lilspaz is able to help and I'll be interested in hearing what Dr. Munn has to say and suggest.
Just to recap, is Bear on medication right now?

Click to expand...

Nothing but antibiotics for a URI.

No seizures overnight that I can tell, I am a very light sleeper and was actually trying to be aware of it. This morning he had a mild seizure, a little bit of rearing and paw batting at the air but it was over quickly...unfortunately this is the only one I have SEEN and it was chance that I did, so how many more is he having that I don't see?
His brother was distressed and kept going over to him, as he was up on the grass hut, but he kept biting at his face and head...not hard but enough to keep Bruce from joining him. He was a bit agitated and now he's lying flat on the hut, probably pretty tired from his ordeal. I am waiting to have a coffee before I take him out, as I need to be aware of what his behaviours are so I don't get bitten (no fault of their own, just a bad reaction to the seizures).

Pictures of the 2 big lads on Saturday up at my Moms.

Bear




Bruce

Bruce (big brother) seems to need reassurance when his brother has his "funny spells". So I pat him and pull him out for cuddles which he allows and seems to like. After I put him back, he usually sits on the shelf and watches me or peers at me from the peep hole that Miss Mouse graciously added to the base of the cage :doh:

Awww what a great picture. :3

It must be very confusing for Bruce - he knows something is wrong, but he's not allowed to comfort him.
I would be worried about the cause of these seizures. If Bear could only have a CT scan done to see if there is anything unusual in his brain...

I'm not sure what it could indicate, but for all of the seizures I saw he always lifts his left paw and leans to the right before rearing and batting. I'm don't know if that's usual for seizures in rats. My family yellow lab was epileptic and she would just collapse out of no where.

If it's a tumor or growth would he lean to the side that the tumor is on?

I wish we were more advanced and had some translator to tell Bruce what's going on and to let Bear be until he is ready

I think it was very wise to let those boys go to you Shelagh. Seizure rats can be so heart breaking and take such a toll emotionally on your mind. I know shelagh has had so much experience with these sickly rats that they always thrive with her. Bear has a long road ahead of him the side effects from the meds can take a toll and will require constant monitoring. Pheonobarbital cannot be missed even one time once it is starts or it can throw them into a status seizure which means it wont stop. Seizures can be deadly when they last more than 5 minutes and status seizures can. They wont even take my mom off that med out of fear of what typs and how many seizures she will go into. Poor bear will need a lot of extra love and care and he is in the right hands now to get that critical care.

Bear didn't have any obvious seizures this morning, or overnight, but tonight he had 7 in quick succession. The first one he fell off the shelf, then was rearing up, batting at the air and falling over. I ran for the cage and found him really stressed, so I pulled him out. Most were face squinched up hard, and the tip over while one paw bats the aire, but another one was another scary one, where he snaps his mouth over and over, drools twists and kicks, and is much more violent Once he's done he repeatedly swallows to clear his mouth of saliva.

I put him back in with his brother to see if that would help him settle down a bit. And now he's hyper alert but doing better. He seems reluctant to use his paws which I noticed before.

oh the poor guy! and you too, that must be so hard to watch. :/

And another one at 10:50 am...no multiples yet.

The good thing is he recovers pretty fast from these, unlike my old Talty who took ages to become self-aware again. Bruce was lying in the corner and after Bear was done, and had chilled out in the grass hut, he comes over and partially climbs on top of his big brother, and now he's eating again.

I hope Bruce has figured out to wait until Bear is done before he tries to comfort him.

Do you have an appointment booked with Dr. Munn yet?

Joanne said:

I hope Bruce has figured out to wait until Bear is done before he tries to comfort him.

Do you have an appointment booked with Dr. Munn yet?

Click to expand...

No. He's been out of town.

I plan on emailing my documentation on his seizure activity, and the videos Kailan took to Dr Munn to review before I bring him in.

Bear is really good about his brother's seizures. He leaves him alone, until he's done then either allows Bear to climb on him, or bite at this face when he's at "that" stage...he just puts up with it.

Hard to see them going through this. I've only experienced something similar once before and not to this extent. Your intensive experience with rats is the best place for these guys. Sending healing thoughts.

I am using this thread to log everything...so I can send the details to Dr Munn

He seemed agitated this morning, started getting restless and this is when he eats and drinks a lot, almost like he's trying to prevent it from happening by doing these things. A few times I thought he was going to start but he didn't then finally...

8:32 am

Fell off shelf, full on barrel roll seizure, rear up, batting air, fall overrun into house...came back for a puff then dropped it and ran off again

I called the vet clinic and gave kenna the headsup to look for an email for Dr munn to see about bear and his seizures. I'll send it today or tonight.

Email sent. Fingers crossed Dr Munn can get him in early next week.