Alduin is gone, Klaus is alone

My mischief of five has dwindled to two. Rupert went to Shelagh first and was there approximately two months before he passed. Bear and Bruce are missed as well - they went to Shelagh today, too. They should do much better though and I am eagerly waiting to hear how they are adjusting :missu: It's only been almost 12 hours but... y'know...

Now it is just Alduin and Klaus. Klaus has chronic myco symptoms - red nasal discharge, wheezy and heavy breathing. He is much better than Alduin though... Alduin, who I am 90% sure is Rupert's biological brother, may have pulmonary abscesses. He has no discharge, no real wheeze or rattle or rumble, but he does have hard abdominal breathing. Al is a sweet, usually plucky guy... in recent weeks he seems tired and struggles to keep up with everyone. He gets enough oxygen to maintain colour and keep up the basics - eating, drinking, grooming, etc. but he is just not himself at all.

The vet has prescribed the baytril/doxy combo to them both, but the doxy was out of stock when I went in last Saturday. I am picking it up early this week but he's only had baytril for the last week. I wish he could have gotten the full combo right away... other than a slight increase in energy levels he hasn't responded yet

My boys are very sickly... it's hard. I know it's harder for them but it's hard for me too... Klaus can recover and I can keep his symptoms controlled once he does, but it's Alduin I'm really worried about. I'm scared he just isn't going to bounce back this time and I'll have to let him go to Rupert at the Bridge... which will leave Klaus alone.

Time will tell which way he is going to swing. All I am focusing on now is being on point with their medications and building Alduin back up. On Saturday he weighed 506g. He used to be around 700g. Bruce wasn't the best alpha and I'm pretty sure he would chase both of them away from food - I've witnessed him chase Klaus away from the water before, wrestle into huts to take food from them, etc. He is a sweet guy deep down but very controlling - Bruce HAS to have control of his environment or he panics and starts dominance displays to reassert himself.

Now that Bruce has gone with Bear to a more experienced home, I'm hoping Alduin and Klaus will have an easier recovery.

Honestly this situation sucks big time and if there was a way for me to save everyone without giving up any of them I would have done it. But that just isn't the way it is... as much as the Universe has popped up to be on my side sometimes, one can only ask for so much. One can only do so much. I bit off way more than I could chew before I knew I had done it.

Anyway, I just wanted to make a thread to better track things, hopefully have somewhere to update good things and even just.. just to hear from you guys. Good or bad - especially bad, kick my ass when you want to and tell me how it is!

OK this is a thread for Klaus and Alduin, not for me to whine like broken record!

The number one thing I need to grab, aside from the doxy, is a freaking scale!! I need, need, NEED to keep a record of Alduins weight and I can't find a bloody scale!

So first objective is to lock down the doxy for the full medication combo, second objective is to acquire a scale, third objective is to increase Alduin's weight.

Pics maybe later tonight, more likely tomorrow. Just wanted to get this started before I doubt it's purpose or over think posting anything at all.

Most department stores (Target, Walmart etc.) sell them as a food scale.

I think you did a lot of good for your boys. You recognized that this is beyond your level of experience and made a good decision for the well being of your boys.

I'm sorry things are so rough for you guys right now. It sometimes seems with ratties that when it rains it pours. I hope things can return to 'normal' with time and you guys can enjoy each other again.

It's definitely a battle with uri or pulmonary abscesses and it's hard on the whole family. In fact, I usually go into al depression when one of mine is quite sick, you can't help but be that way. But remember that you are doing all you can for them and that's all we can do. Hang in there!

Thanks you two It's hard to remember that I'm not failing, just struggling...

Photobucket is being a dink, I have a video of both of them and how they're breathing but for now just a picture of a sleepy Alduin:



Both boys have had their meds for the day. I don't want to stress them out by forcing pure meds into them so I've been sucking up some Ensure in the syringe then squirting it out onto a spoon - so far, so good.

And I found a way to make sure Alduin gets more calories without having to remove him at all. He gets a larger hunk of bread soaked in Ensure and Klaus gets a much smaller piece accompanied with a veggie. I try to make sure they're eating in different spots so that when Alduin is still working on his and piggy Klaus is done he doesn't get disturbed right away.

No scale yet - hopefully in the next couple of days.

Good news so far: I've seen Alduin eat solid food three times on his own today! He even took a stash with him! The past week he wouldn't touch it! WOO!

Awww good boy Alduin!! You keep eating and gain a little weight, and stop making your mom worry so much :heart:

I got my scale (a postal scale) at Staples/Business Depot.
I'm glad you have figured out a way to get things manageable again. Your two boys are in good hands with Shelagh.

Joanne said:

I got my scale (a postal scale) at Staples/Business Depot.
I'm glad you have figured out a way to get things manageable again. Your two boys are in good hands with Shelagh.

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Theres a kitchen store down the road from where I work and a Canadian Tire up the other way, I'm going to scout them out today after work.

I know, I just miss their company... even Bruce, who's taken an immediate liking to Shelagh but seemed to always see me as a contestant for alpha :/ I'm just glad he likes someone other than Bear!

Got the doxy last night! My mom did something I did not expect and threw me for a loop... long story short, I'm covered for my first three months of baytril and doxy. If I had known she was going to do that before I gave Bear and Bruce to Shelagh, I might have reconsidered the decision. Ultimately, in her hands, Bear will get the best help he needs and that's what matters, though. I never thought my mother would do that... driving me, yes, but that... put me in the twilight zone.

Regardless time is my main issue. Heck, even getting the doxy last night took me three and a half hours. I left work at 5, took two buses to get to the clinic that Im pretty sure is only 2km away, got on the wrong bus home and ended up in the far North end of Barrie. I live in the South end... I got home at 8 30 and medicated the boys right away. Fortunately the landlord is finally installing laundry in the apartment so I dont have to bus it the laundromat anymore - more time home with the boys!

This morning the guys got out on the couch with me before I went to work. I gently pulled the whole CN over to the arm of the couch so they could come and go however they liked. Alduin was out immediately hehe Klaus took a while before he was convinced he had to move his butt himself and waiting for me to grab him was futile.

And finally, video of Alduin's poor tummy Klaus's sounds.
http://youtu.be/AzUwR6yByaQ

I have no idea how to embed youtube videos on here...

Disregard this until i figure out embeding...

This is way more difficult than it should be...

I just link myself, don't worry, as long as we can watch the videos right?

The boys both look bright but Al does look thin. Are they relaxing more that bully Bruce is away?

lilspaz68 said:

I just link myself, don't worry, as long as we can watch the videos right?

The boys both look bright but Al does look thin. Are they relaxing more that bully Bruce is away?

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Truuue but I wanna be able to do it! :cries: Lol I'll let go of it. Here is Al's current condition, lunch, and me talking like an idiot:
http://youtu.be/zEafKXjJAV8

You can see better how hard his body is working. I've talked to him several times about how he needs to rest lots, eat lots and drink lots to help the meds make him better.

Al is thin but I think he's slowly gaining now. I'm trying to up his protein so he can pack on easier without overloading him with Ensure.

Klaus is all about it being just the three of us, he seems pleased about everything but he does worry about Al. When Im not near the cage he cuddles up to him and sometimes when he goes to check on him, Al will groom behind his ears like "Its alright".

I think Al wonders where Bear is, though. He sometimes gives me this questioning look and seems almost upset with me. He lets me love him and all, takes food, comes immediately to see me when I put the cage by the couch, but he pushes me out of his sleeping spots. Usually he'll let me chill but it's like I've been knocked down a peg for taking his friend away :think:

Finally. Finally, after approximately three years of saying I need one or am getting one, I have a scale!

Official weigh-in:
Klaus: 660g
Alduin: 508g

Someone has taken to Bear and Bruce's absence much better than the other :think:

Alduin has only gained 2 grams since the vet weighed him. I'm using a different scale, a different container to hold them in (just an upside down hide), but I was hoping to see +20 or even +10... and it's just +2...

I'm also unsure of his behaviour. I believe in animal communication but I'm not so good at it. He's bright when he sees me - he comes to me, waits for loving, licks my fingers, etc. But at rest he seems very withdrawn. Klaus hangs out with him if he's in a hide or a hammock, but he's been spending a lot of time hanging his head over the edge of the shelf. His eyes seem sad...

When he's out and about he seems confused, like he doesn't know where to go. He prefers to stick close to the cage while Klaus will go anywhere and everywhere if I let him. He wanders with a burst of energy for a few seconds then stops to rest. He's tired. He doesn't want to play, which is OK because Klaus isn't playful, but I do miss my silly Al that would let me tickle his belly

I'm thinking I might have to make the call soon... I've been watching him closely to try and determine what HE wants. I know he wants it to be easier for him to breathe - who wouldn't - but I can't tell if he wants to keep fighting or if he's suffering...

His body has to work so hard to get breath... he still has pink hands and feet, his nostrils are clear but he sneezes crap out sometimes, his eyes are bright and alert, his coat is good... and by his behaviour he seems like a human in the hospital. He grooms and eats and drinks and sleeps and that's it. He welcomes attention but doesn't have the energy to explore or investigate or do other ratty things that would stimulate him mentally.

Any suggestions? Any ways to know that he's telling me he's too tired? Is there anything I can do to entertain or stimulate him that won't require much energy from him? :undecided:

Is he still eating well?

hopefloats said:

Is he still eating well?

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Yes and no. He takes anything I give him, mows it hungrily, but usually doesn't finish. He eats much slower due to his breathing. He's been eating some veggies, his eggs, the Ensure soaked bread, the baby cereal, but not nearly as much as Klaus. I can't tell if he is allowing Klaus to take more because he is used to being on the bottom of the hierarchy, or if he just doesn't have the energy to muscle in and take what he wants. He definitely eats blocks still. When I came home today he was chewing on one and brought it with him to say hello to me. He's very good with eating his meds as long as I mix it into baby cereal. He always finishes that and then looks at me for more.

Edit:
He keeps chewing or bruxing a lot, even boggling. He boggles when I pet him and chews at rest randomly. I find it hard to believe that he is so content just sitting in spot and breathing hard that he's bruxing... he's clearly uncomfortable.

He's eating, he's active, alert, responsive, licky, boggles sometimes... but looks so uncomfortable and tired. Like is he just feeling old and sick and is still content, or is he so discontent and uncomfortable that he's chewing about it?

My PT rats would chew and brux a lot, seem confused, start eating and then seem to lose interest. The bruxing sometimes went to the extreme - it seemed like almost too much force sometimes.
Anyway, I'm wondering if he has more than one thing going on at once. Perhaps respiratory/heart and the beginning of a PT.
My limit is if they are eating. Once they refuse to eat any more, it is time to say goodbye. Or if they can't breathe. If he's just old and tired, then that's not that bad.

Joanne said:

My PT rats would chew and brux a lot, seem confused, start eating and then seem to lose interest. The bruxing sometimes went to the extreme - it seemed like almost too much force sometimes.
Anyway, I'm wondering if he has more than one thing going on at once. Perhaps respiratory/heart and the beginning of a PT.
My limit is if they are eating. Once they refuse to eat any more, it is time to say goodbye. Or if they can't breathe. If he's just old and tired, then that's not that bad.

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I've been noticing that he sits on his back legs funny, he's been laying with them extended and when he walks they seem stiff. I've been writing it off as lack of use, since he's very low energy - like when you sit for way too long in the same spot and your legs are stiff. PT has crossed my mind...

He eats, and loses interest. I also assumed that would have been from needing to stop so he can breathe easier. But if his legs aren't looking right and he's doing similar things to your PT rats then I have to accept that.

I know loss of appetite is the sign that it's too much. No one wants to eat when they're in pain...

But he eats. He enjoys his food, cuddle time with Klaus, and we 'groom' each other. He still comes out of the cage to roam the bed but only for a short time before he needs to go back in and hang his head over the shelf. It's a hard time for him but as long as he can still find contentment then that's what matters.

It sounds like he may have a few more miles in him then...

Joanne said:

It sounds like he may have a few more miles in him then...

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I hope so raying: He just looks so dismal sometimes, I get scared coming home from work that he won't be there.

Today has been good though. Very eager for meds, got some banana and apple with veggies today and even though he's not coming out someone has elected to make a third peephole in the cube.



And this is about all I can get of Klaus these days.





The camera is an elusive apparatus that demands investigation, apparently, no matter how many times he's seen it.

Klaus looks thrilled and Al looks okay. Once they start losing weight from resp issues you just try to slow down the decline...any weight gain is awesome!

lilspaz68 said:

Klaus looks thrilled and Al looks okay. Once they start losing weight from resp issues you just try to slow down the decline...any weight gain is awesome!

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Today Al weighs 496g Not a major drop but still not a good feeling... He does seem a bit brighter lately though. He was hanging out in the hammock munching on oxbow when I got up and came to see me when he heard me moving. Not as much time spent hanging his head over the shelf.

Klaus is having a great time and has claimed my bed as his kingdom in Bear's absence (it was Bear's go-to spot). He's a piggy though, I gotta watch him close when they get veggies and treats because he'll shove his face in and butt Al out :giggle:

Small update... Al is still losing weight and his interest in food is decreasing as well. He will eat his first spoon of meds but then I have to finger feed him the rest, meanwhile Klaus can't be in the same area or he literally shoves Al out of the way to get to food. Which means any time I want Al to get extra baby cereal, eggs, veggies, etc. I have to take Klaus out of the cage and keep checking back to make sure Al is eating.

Klaus is totally cool with it, though. As long as I'm hanging out with him he doesn't mind missing out on food. He always gets a bit but he's a hefty guy so it's a balancing act of trying to keep his weight down and somehow get Al's weight up.

Al still seems to have the same energy levels, but he slips into confusion sometimes. It's the same look I saw on Penny right before she passed and on Edward the day of his crossing, so on a daily basis I wonder if next time I see Al if he'll still be with me...

This is how he's doing (this is about as far out of the cage as he comes when I get them out on the bed). It's a video off my photobucket:


This shot is from a few days before:


And Klaus:


It's honestly not a good time but Al is holding on. I just wish Klaus was more with him than not... he seems to be more interested in consuming Al's food and being with me. Al also isn't comfortable sitting on my lap but when he chooses a spot on the bed I'll arrange myself around him for a "cuddle" and he goes to sleep.

I just wish he had a rat friend helping him fight.

Al's weight yesterday: 473g
Al's weight today: 473g
woo no drop!