Moose's weight loss journey

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temblabamomo

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2010
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Hi Shackers. Hope it is okay that I started a new thread on this. I posted previously about Moose, but having computer/internet issue and having trouble with certain search/thread features on the Shack today :/

Moose was neutered 7/31/14 for his bad behavior - total bully, super puffy around other rats, etc. Good news - he is no longer acting hormonal, so that is one good thing.

However, his weight has ballooned, I would call him morbidly obese now. He was 736g on 7/31, I will get a current weight when I get home. He is so fat he's having trouble walking, and has developed mild bumbles on both back feet (which I am dabbing with Blu Kote now). He's in a clean, single FN, and I'm sure the bumbles are from the extra weight on his feet, not a dirty cage, etc.

He sits over the food bowl and will just eat (oxbow) mechanically for a long, long time. Just stuffs his face. He does not get treats anymore. I try to give him stuff to keep busy with in the cage, and he gets out time everynight, but now that he's so fat he will waddle around for a few minutes, then just lay under the bed and stare into space. In the cage he just sits (usually next to the food bowl) and doesn't do much of anything.

His back is very greasy and flakey now, probably because he can't reach to groom. I try to help him, and comb grease out, but he squeaks like I'm hurting him, or like he is very sensitive. Before the neuter, he loved cuddles. Now he squeaks if I so much as touch him, and tries to get away. I have felt him as well as I can just in case maybe he has a massive abdominal growth that could be making him appear fat, but it doesn't seem that way.

I am very sad over this. I only neutered him because he was so hormonal it was scaring Sidney - I was intro'ing Sid to these brothers because Sid's cagemate died. The day Moose got home from his neuter, Sid showed PT signs and died within two weeks, so they were never intro'd. Moose was great before the neuter (aside from being a butthead) and I feel terrible that something about it has done this to him. His quality of life isn't great right now. He doesn't enjoy playtime, he doesn't interact with his brother, he doesn't want me to touch him, and no longer gets any kind of treats. He's maybe 1.5 years old, definitely under 2.

He is also still sleeping with his eyes open. I will think he's awake and go to pet his head, and he will jump out of his skin as if he was asleep and never saw my hand coming.

His brother did great after the neuter, soft silky fur, much more calm and confident, no weight gain.

So, what can I do? I think a vet visit is in order, but what could they do for him? Should I ask for bloodwork or something? He is not a happy rat, I can tell :(
 
A neuter doesn't cause weight gain, so don't blame yourself for that. Some rats as they age get too lazy and start to over eat.
I put all 5 of my oldies on a diet. I limit their rat blocks and it's worked wonders. They've all lost weight and become more alert and active.
Start out slow though, you want a slow weight loss, not a fast one. What do you feed them currently?
 
They are on oxbow. He is housed with his brother who is at a good weight, nice and slim and trim. I'm worried if I restrict their oxbow Moose will eat all of it and his brother will be hungry.
 
A valid concern - the same reason my fat cat did not go on a diet --> his skinny sister.
Neutering doesn't cause morbid obesity or apathy or sensitivity. I too worry that he has an undiagnosed condition that is affecting him. I don't know if the vet will be able to find anything, but it's worth a shot...
 
You could give his brother extra food while you take Moose out for special one on one with you.
With the 5 in my group, they all lost weight. I count out the blocks and then hand them some as well to make sure they all get theres. I do this through out the day.
 
His brother won't hurt for losing a few grams. I will limit their food a bit and see what happens. What would be an appropriate portion of oxbow for 2 rats? 1/2 cup per 24 hours?
 
That's a good question and one you'll have to work out. If you see they are losing too much weight too fast, you'll have to give more, if you see they are not losing weight at all, give less.
 
That's a good question and one you'll have to work out. If you see they are losing too much weight too fast, you'll have to give more, if you see they are not losing weight at all, give less.


Makes sense. I also would really like to mix my groups, I feel if Moose had rats in addition to his brother he'd be a little more mentally stimulated and maybe happier. Does that seem plausible? They get along but have never been close. I have 3 males who are similar in age, but the biggest cage available is a single FN, small for 5 hulking boys.

They're food bowl tonight has what i think is a good portion of food, I'll see how much is left in the morning.

He weighs in at 925g tonight.
 
I would give it a go with the intros for sure, even if you can get them to have out time together. You are right that 5 big boys, especially one at over 2 lbs. is quite a lot for a single CN. But if they are all over 18 months to 2 years, it might work.
 
The other trio of boys are intact, and at least one of them is a butthead, but I will try intros, or just playtime or something with the nicer of the boys.

There is also a lone, male PEW at animal control I'm arranging to pick up this week, so he is a potential future pal to Moose and Mo, maybe.

I tried to get Moose to chase the feather toy last night, he did for a few minutes then got bored.

Their food bowl was empty this morning, I really thought what I left should be plenty for just overnight.
 
Wowzers! Your boy is big!
You should have named him Peanut, or Tiny. He just felt he had to do his name justice. ;)

He was only a few months old and very much in shape when he came to me. He also came with the name. His brother came to me named "Asmodeus" (look it up - scary!) but it's shortened to Mo now. Otherwise, yes, I too have thought about Peanut with Moose's recent weight problem!
 
Wowzers! Your boy is big!
You should have named him Peanut, or Tiny. He just felt he had to do his name justice. ;)

My Peanut, who weights over 900 grams, does not like your comment!!

Have you tried bathing him in warm water with a small amount of dawn to remove the buck grease. I know some people will comment on this, but I'm not saying to get it near his face or let him eat it...! He older and big and quite possible has arthritis - the warm water might feel good to him. If he does have arthritis he might in pain meds.

You can try moving his food bowl around too so he has to go to it. I would still supplement with veggies/fruit as his treats. My Peanut (yes, he was very tiny when we got him) doesn't get around well but we don't limit his food, his two cages mates are normal size. Infact, of the seven that were in that cage - he was the only one that got that big. He doesn't like out time much either, but we love him just the way he is.
Photo of Peanut:
http://www.ratshackforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29310
 
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Is it any coincidence that after I clicked that link, Peanut's image took the longest to load? <3 he's such a big handsome squish though. More to love.

Moose and Mo and Malcolm all watched Walking Dead with me on the couch last night, they've never met Mal but it's neutral zone and they all got on fine. Adding Mals 2 brothers tonight. Moose was definitely livelier with a different rat to check out. Also managed to give him a nice brushing and wipe down, de- greased his fur a bit.
 
So we are down from 925g on oct 28 to 902g today, November 5. Too much loss too soon?

I have lessened their food and the dish usually is empty in the morning. In the evening it is nearly empty, but Mo (the healthy weight boy) has started stashing a little bit of it in the igloo, so they're not running out completely during the day.

The potential new buddy fell through, so still trying to keep Moose busy and excited meeting Malcolm's group. Have a PEW possibly traveling all the way from Florida!soon who may be a potential friend and spark life into Moose and Mo.

Some photos...

Next to a pumpkin, for size comparison lol
View attachment 1755

Big boy. I've seen bigger, but he has a smaller frame so carries the weight badly.
View attachment 1756

View attachment 1757

Before he got fat
View attachment 1758
 
It does seem like a huge weight loss but at his size, it wouldn't take much for him to drop fast. Make sure he's not stressed out. No porphyrin or lethargy.
What a beautiful boy before the weight gain. When he comes down in weight, he will still have his loose skin with him so he won't look like his old self again but he will be healthier.
 
He's actually been slightly more active during out time, so taking that as a good sign. If they're like people, the weight will come off fairly easy in the beginning, then plateau (that's my experience anyway...)
 
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