First intros.. advice/thoughts?

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khalirats

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2012
Messages
188
Location
Wales, UK
Hello,

I recently took on a rescue rat and i've just attempted intros with my resident boys for the first time, and im looking for some advice/thoughts on how it went from people with experience as its my first time ever!

In the run up to today they have been living side by side in their cages, i've also swapped fleeces between cages and even swapped the ratties between cages, i've been doing this for about 5 weeks now, so today was the first time they've properly met.

I introduced them in the shower tray since we dont have a bath, and i had a bowl of porridge in the middle.

For the first few seconds all was calm, then Archie (the newbie) poofed up his fur and tried to dominate everyone, there was a small scuffle between him and Ollie, i noticed afterwards that he actually broke Ollie's skin but i dont know if that was intentional or not, Ollie's a double rex and is often accidentally scratched during play/scuffles. I stopped the scuffle with a towel and Archie backed off but stayed poofed up, my other 2 boys Loki and Misha basically sat frozen the whole time, when Archie went near them and tried to dominate Misha huffed and sqeaked at him but there was no scuffle, and Loki stood up and put his foot on Archie's head, but again no scuffle.

Archie then wandered around (still poofed up) and i removed him and put them all back in their cages, Loki and Misha seemed quite stressed so i didnt want to draw it out too long, they were together for about 10 minutes in total.

There was no poofing up from my resident boys at all, they mostly sat still or had a little wash, Ollie was the only one to eat a little porridge.

Personally i dont think this was a great intro... so i wanted some opinions before i try again!

My resident boys are all 1 year 6 months and are brothers, there isn't really a single dominant one at the moment.
Archie is around 1 year old and as far as i know he has lived with rats before.

They're all un-neutered currently.

Any advice gratefully received!
 
I would say this did go well. It's normal for Archie to poof up since he's new. But next time, give everyone a treat before ending the intro session.
 
Oh okay! That's good to hear, I was worried that it was stressing my resident boys out too much.

How long should i wait before their next meeting? Should i do it every day now?
 
I'm going through a similar process, but I only have one resident boy (after his brother died in August). I've been trying to intro every day and I think it was Jorats who said twice a day would be even better.

You described similar things to what my guys are doing. The puffiness is the main thing. It's very nerve-wracking when you're not used to this... I'm terrified of someone getting hurt and it's hard to know what's normal and what's worth breaking up. I guess the key is going slowly. I rushed it a bit too much at first and tried them in the same cage before they were ready (the brats had me fooled, they were curled up together sleeping in their neutral area!), so I'd say even when they're acting like pals, still take your time.
 
I was terrified when i was watching them interact! My residents seemed very scared but they're all very laid back boys, i dont think they knew what to make of Archie.

I've actually just discovered bite marks on Loki and Misha from the intro, they're not deep at all but obviously bled a little as there are scabs.. so not sure what to do now. I broke up the scuffles with a towel as soon as they happened but obviously wasnt fast enough :(
 
Can I get a picture of the scabs? With scabs, it's 99% likely that it's from mites and not bites. A bite from a rat is noticeable immediately.
 
I agree, a picture is in order. If it is a bite mark, there are usually four marks, one from each incisor. And know that if there are little scrapes from bites, the rat did not intend to harm the other rat. If a rat truly bites, it is severe and bloody - there is no doubt.
 
I've dealt with mites and i really think these are bites..

This is Ollie, i noticed the marks on him immediately, one of them now appears to be turning into an abscess also..

1z1cohw.jpg


This is one of Misha's, noticed it when it scabbed over as its quite deep in his fur, there's a smaller one about 1cm below

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and this is Loki, noticed shortly after the intro, not a lot of bleeding again

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edit: they dont appear to be very deep at all so i dont think he intended any real harm and was trying to be the boss more than anything, he's also quite a nervous rat and has been on his own for a while, maybe he was being defensive in the form of attack?
I feel awful that my gentle resident boys got hurt
 
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Only Ollie has an abscess at the moment but will be watching the others too

He's not neutered at the moment, i think it might be best to get him done though
 
Thankyou, i'll get him booked in soon. Unfortunately just had to have my elderly dog PTS and paid for cremation, so Archie will have to wait a couple weeks, but he'll be done!

How long is it best to wait after he's neutered before trying an intro again?
 
Hope its okay to bump this thread - didnt seem worth making a new post!

Anyway, i got Archie neutered a few weeks ago and just tried intros again, he's like a different rat now, calmly sniffing my other boys! However Loki seemed to remember he got bitten by Archie before and went on the defense, he jumped on his back and sort of nipped/groomed (he didnt bite skin only fur) and then ran off, this made Archie poof up and he was chattering his teeth. Misha then came up to him doing a bit of dominance butt-swiping/rubbing which Archie accepted, but then Archie jumped on Ollie (who up until then had just been wandering around happily) and nipped his back - he drew blood but i think it was accidental as Ollie is a double rex and mostly naked, it's essentially the same thing Loki did to Archie but Ollie doesn't have fur to take the nip! I broke them up, Archie calmed down and de-puffed, sniffed Misha again (Loki and Ollie disappeared to the other end of the table). I gave them all a treat then ended the session, does it sound like it went okay? The intro lasted 10 minutes total
 
It could have been a lot worse.
One good thing is that Archie calmed down and was ok by the end of the intro and was interacting with Misha.
Another good point is that no one was intentionally harmed
Sometimes when a rat becomes very stressed, such as Archie did after Loki jumped on him, it helps to scoop them out for a few mins to pet and cuddle them to help them calm down and feel safe before the situation escalates. Then you put them back so the intro can continue.

Here is some info that may be helpful http://www.ratshackforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32368
 
That's great thankyou, if they get a bit stressed again next time i'll give them a cuddle until they settle - i wasn't sure if i should intervene or not
 
If you intervene when they are very upset, you might get accidentally scratched or bitten.
People don't usually intervene, but with rats that are very afraid sometimes I have found that it will help during the first few neutral area intros
Of course the 20 to 30 mins time starts all over again when you put them back (imo)
 
It's a good start, definitely not ideal but you've got some high stressed rats there. I would keep going. But I think for now, I would stop all interactions between rats. I would allow them to be close together and maybe even have treats together but if one is about to climb the other, I would move him away for now.
 
Thankyou, tonight i will try keeping them near each other but not making contact and see how they go, if Loki is still very stressed i'll try sitting with him in my arms, the intro happens on the kitchen table so he'll still be close but hopefully will feel safer with me
 
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