Introduction question

Hello! If any of you haven't heard here, I adopted two little boys from Holly just the other night. I must say they're doing splendidly, however Loki, my beige berk (one of the new ones), seems to be acting dominant with Rose and Guild. I have the young boys' cage on my bed, and I was letting my older ones run around. My older boys were so gentle and inquisitive! However, Loki started nipping through the bars at Rose and a little at Guild (Rose is the alpha right now).

Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions about this situation? I don't know if this is actual aggression he could be starting to show, or if he's just so interested that he's being too excited? I wonder what he'd do if and when he's out and checking them out... whether he'd be aggressive or not. I definately think I'll have an alpha switch in the not-too-distant future. :3

Riana,
Rats will nip at/bite other rats, even cage mates through the bars.

If you are starting intros, cages should be near each other but far enough apart that the rats can not reach one another. The goal, at this point, is to get them used to one anothers scent. You can also put cloths from each cage into the other cage so they get used to each others scent.

Here is an article on introducing rats by Debbie Ducommun:
http://ratfanclub.org/newrat.html

Here is one from the rat care guide
http://ratguide.com/care/behavior/introducing_rats.php

links to other articles can be found at http://www.petratscanada.com

I agree, reaching through the bars and nipping is normal.
How old are these new boys?

I would start with an intro in the bath tub, no water, a place that is new to both sets of rats and it will force them to be together, also, have some yummy food there too, like yogurt.
From that intro, you'll be able to tell how long this process will take.

The baby boys are 9 weeks old.

Too young to show aggression, they must be super excited.

Okay, that makes me feel better I had Freyr out on my bed with the boys last night and he did wonderfully, but I didn't know if Loki was too excited to be good or not. I'll definately try the introduction on neutral territory.

How are the boys doing?
You might want to give the baby boys a bit more time to get used to you and their new surroundings before really getting into intros.
But you would be the best judge of that as you can see how they are adapting to their new surroundings.

hope everything goes well.

See, that's where I disagree with SQ. I believe boys when new to you, is the best time to try intros because they are still confused as to what will be their real living situation. Allowing them to get used to you is also allowing them to establish territory which is what you don't want them to do. You want them to show respect to the current crew, to the stable crew and that's where they will get their cue...

The boys are young and as Jorats said, not yet territorial or aggressive ...
Given their age, Riana does have some time before they will get that way ...

Jorats, you have much more experience with intros then I have. Thanks, you have given me something to think about ...

When I was new at doing intros, I had young rats injured unexpectedly by older rats.
So ... I am cautious and do prefer step by step for safety, tho the amount of time this takes is determined by the reactions of the ratties ... could be very fast if young rats, or very slow if older, territorial rats.
Of course, no steps needed when putting babies in with babies.

You know, I think with Freyr, he would acclimate to the boys much quicker, and put up less of a fuss, as opposed to Loki. Loki seems much more daring and I think he'd be the one to challenge, if there was anything to challenge about. Right now as I type the two babies are wrestling with each other, pinning, etc, and both are doing an equal amount of that, but I still wonder if Freyr would be more placid with the strangers.

I would think that the sooner they can get used to each other, the sooner they'd feel more comfortable towards me. I know with Guild he was terribly shy with me, but once he saw Rose interacting with me, he caught on and was very quickly used to me. I think it would be the same with these ones! Monkey see, monkey do, as they say. But I think I have a bit of time yet before the boys are big enough to go in the larger cage, so even if I can get them all playing together nicely for the first bit, that would give them much more time to get used to each other before they're forced to stay together all the time. Wouldn't you say? If I'm wrong, certainly feel free to correct me

You're right about monkey see monkey do... but it's more monkey hear and monkey smell. lol

When the older guys are happy interacting with you, they send out happy signals, the babies will receive those signal and equal it to your smell.

SQ, I should clarify, I wouldn't intro rats under 8 weeks to older rats unless I know for sure that the old guys are very gentle.

The young rats I mentioned that were injured were older than 8 weeks and less than 3 months.

SQ, can you tell us more what happened and the circumstances?

Went faster with the intros then I should have - new at intros ...
Cindy was eating out of the dish during the intro, turned her head sideways and ripped the side of Monroe's face quite badly,
during another intro Hannah almost completely severed Adam's toe, again while at a food dish.
Ratties recovered, lots of blood and a trip to the vet in both cases.

Since then, I tend to be cautious re. intros.

:shock:

Oh dear Lord.

This was between spayed female and intact male? How old were the rats at the time?

Both adult females were spayed and probably around a year. Baby boys were between two and three months of age and not yet neutered. Had moved from neutral territory intros to familiar area intros. So I went back a step or two and went slower ... eventually everyone lived happily together.

It was a couple of years ago and I was new at intros.
(Cindy, Hannah, Monroe and Adam have all since passed away.)
But I do tend to be cautious at intros as a result, going through all the intro steps and carefully observing the ratties.

These accidents do happen but not usually the norm.

As a result, your caution and warnings are justified.